S-turns on final

Came across a blast from the past on youtube. There was a video of teaching s-turns for glide path control. Looked to be from the 40's. Not sure why they would teach this when a slip would be safer and more effective.

On Monday, February 13, 2017 at 10:45:27 PM UTC+3, Jonathan St. Cloud wrote:
Came across a blast from the past on youtube. There was a video of teaching s-turns for glide path control. Looked to be from the 40's. Not sure why they would teach this when a slip would be safer and more effective.

Doesn't have to be one or the other! You can get much more sink rate in a slip if you use more aileron than the rudder can compensate for, and turn as a result.

Slipping full brake S-turns: more sink rate, longer path through the air -- *much* more height lost on the same length final.

On Monday, February 13, 2017 at 11:45:27 AM UTC-8, Jonathan St. Cloud wrote:
Came across a blast from the past on youtube. There was a video of teaching s-turns for glide path control. Looked to be from the 40's. Not sure why they would teach this when a slip would be safer and more effective.

S turns on final seems like a great way to get uncoordinated and kill yourself. Count me out.

Matt

On Monday, February 13, 2017 at 5:54:51 PM UTC-6, Matt Herron Jr. wrote:
On Monday, February 13, 2017 at 11:45:27 AM UTC-8, Jonathan St. Cloud wrote:
Came across a blast from the past on youtube. There was a video of teaching s-turns for glide path control. Looked to be from the 40's. Not sure why they would teach this when a slip would be safer and more effective.

S turns on final seems like a great way to get uncoordinated and kill yourself. Count me out.

Matt

and slips aren't?

No, they aren't.

Admittedly, not used often, but I was taught S-turns on long final for spacing while flying power. This might be due to an aircraft delayed and not clearing the runway in a timely manner as expected, rather than execute a go-around (which remains an option if all else fails), or to increase spacing between the aircraft ahead if requested by tower. I was once asked for 360 for spacing while on long final by the tower while flying a Stemme (in glider mode). I most always planned a steeper approach when landing glider at an often busy airport (Napa, CA) to allow for sequencing. And an engine start on roll out to taxi home!

Stemmes do towered airports no problem - though I did visit the tower first to explain that I'd normally be landing as a glider and why.

bumper

At 05:51 14 February 2017, bumper wrote:
Admittedly, not used often, but I was taught S-turns on long final for
spac=
ing while flying power. This might be due to an aircraft delayed and not
cl=
earing the runway in a timely manner as expected, rather than execute a
go-=
around (which remains an option if all else fails), or to increase
spacing
=
between the aircraft ahead if requested by tower. I was once asked for
360
=
for spacing while on long final by the tower while flying a Stemme (in
glid=
er mode). I most always planned a steeper approach when landing glider at
a=
n often busy airport (Napa, CA) to allow for sequencing. And an engine
star=
t on roll out to taxi home!

Stemmes do towered airports no problem - though I did visit the tower
first=
to explain that I'd normally be landing as a glider and why.

bumper=20

I seem to remember George Moffatt, in one of his books, saying that that
was what he was taught in France, when he started.

Dave

On Tuesday, February 14, 2017 at 2:54:51 AM UTC+3, Matt Herron Jr. wrote:
On Monday, February 13, 2017 at 11:45:27 AM UTC-8, Jonathan St. Cloud wrote:
Came across a blast from the past on youtube. There was a video of teaching s-turns for glide path control. Looked to be from the 40's. Not sure why they would teach this when a slip would be safer and more effective.

S turns on final seems like a great way to get uncoordinated and kill yourself. Count me out.

I take it you don't have any ridges in your area?

A lot of the time we're a heck of a lot closer to the ground ridge soaring (or catching a thermal low off a peak) than on the part of a final where you might do S turns.

On Monday, February 13, 2017 at 5:54:51 PM UTC-6, Matt Herron Jr. wrote:

S turns on final seems like a great way to get uncoordinated and kill yourself. Count me out.

Matt

Really? How are S-turns any different from normal turns in a pattern, especially if you have to setup for a crosswind on final?

Perhaps you are not comfortable with turns at low altitude? That in itself is pretty dangerous, more so than the actual turns.

Watch out on the ridge!

Kirk
66

On Tuesday, February 14, 2017 at 7:47:49 AM UTC-8, kirk.stant wrote:
On Monday, February 13, 2017 at 5:54:51 PM UTC-6, Matt Herron Jr. wrote:

S turns on final seems like a great way to get uncoordinated and kill yourself. Count me out.

Matt

Really? How are S-turns any different from normal turns in a pattern, especially if you have to setup for a crosswind on final?

Perhaps you are not comfortable with turns at low altitude? That in itself is pretty dangerous, more so than the actual turns.

Watch out on the ridge!

Kirk
66

What is the most dangerous turn in pattern? Base to final. S turns on final will be even lower. Shallow turns really aren't going to loose much altitude for you. If you are so high that spoilers are not going to do the trick, you will need substantial deviations in your S turns to get back on glide slope. In addition to a greater risk of stall/spin, this also makes you unpredictable to others in the pattern. Button hooks are also considered dangerous on the turn to final, and S turns really aren't much different in my mind. Add a 15 knot x-wind, wind gradient, and turbulence and the situation is not good for a bunch of turns at 200 ft

I am sure S turns would be appropriate in some instances, especially for traffic spacing, but I would personally pick a slip first to correct a glide slope problem if at all possible.