Student-Instructor question (USA)

Does instructor have to on the ground when a student is flying?
Can the CFIG be towing or giving other instruction?
GA

"Nolaminar" wrote in message
...
Does instructor have to on the ground when a student is flying?
Can the CFIG be towing or giving other instruction?
GA
There is no FAA requirement that I know of, If there were, how would
students manage cross-country practice? A club, commercial operation, or
insurance company may have more stringent requirements and an instructor may
put any limitation in a student's logbook (61.89 (a) (8). Below is the
operative section of part 61 concerning solo student flight:

61.87
L) Limitations on student pilots operating an aircraft in solo flight. A
student pilot may not operate an aircraft in solo flight unless that student
pilot has received:
(1) An endorsement from an authorized instructor on his or her student pilot
certificate for the specific make and model aircraft to be flown; and

(2) An endorsement in the student's logbook for the specific make and model
aircraft to be flown by an authorized instructor, who gave the training
within the 90 days preceding the date of the flight.

(m) Limitations on student pilots operating an aircraft in solo flight at
night. A student pilot may not operate an aircraft in solo flight at night
unless that student pilot has received:

(1) Flight training at night on night flying procedures that includes
takeoffs, approaches, landings, and go-arounds at night at the airport where
the solo flight will be conducted;

(2) Navigation training at night in the vicinity of the airport where the
solo flight will be conducted; and

(3) An endorsement in the student's logbook for the specific make and model
aircraft to be flown for night solo flight by an authorized instructor who
gave the training within the 90-day period preceding the date of the flight.

(n) Limitations on flight instructors authorizing solo flight. (1) No
instructor may authorize a student pilot to perform a solo flight unless
that instructor has --

(i) Given that student pilot training in the make and model of aircraft or a
similar make and model of aircraft in which the solo flight is to be flown;

(ii) Determined the student pilot is proficient in the maneuvers and
procedures prescribed in this section;

(iii) Determined the student pilot is proficient in the make and model of
aircraft to be flown;

(iv) Ensured that the student pilot's certificate has been endorsed by an
instructor authorized to provide flight training for the specific make and
model aircraft to be flown; and

(v) Endorsed the student pilot's logbook for the specific make and model
aircraft to be flown, and that endorsement remains current for solo flight
privileges, provided an authorized instructor updates the student's logbook
every 90 days thereafter.

(2) The flight training required by this section must be given by an
instructor authorized to provide flight training who is appropriately rated
and current.

Also see 61.89, .93 and .95

At 02:18 22 November 2003, Vaughn wrote:
(in response to a question about whether the CFI must
be on the ground while his/her student is flying solo)
There is no FAA requirement that I know of... (but
a CFI can) put any limitation in a student's logbook
(61.89 (a) (8).

Vaughn is correct - there is not an FAR *requiring*
the endorsing CFI to be present on the ground, in-state
or anywhere in particular when his/her student is flying
solo.

Consistent with 61.89(a)(8) and 61.195(d)(1)(ii), however,
a CFI can elect to supplement any solo endorsement
with a limitation requiring the student to review weather
& flight planning with an instructor before solo flight.
At the CFI's discretion, such a limitation could be
worded to apply to the entire 90 days solo privileges
are granted, or to some magic number of flights, or
when specified winds/weather are forecast or observed.


If any such limitation is intended to apply indefinitely,
it should be included in each 90-day endorsement.

Judy

we've had some instructors try to "supervise" student solos.. while flying
with another student.. while towing... does not always work out..

"new" solo student is one thing.. experienced solo.. and about ready to take
his check ride is another.. not readily available if the weather changes..
or to "monitor the approach and landing", or watching if they are getting to
low on the ridge before heading back to the traffic pattern. There has been
a few times that the "pattern was crowded", but the student needed to be
told to "turn base now", because he appeared to be extending to far.. or was
to low to fly the "normal" ground track.

Hard to do that from the air.

Also, our insurance states that there will be an instructor "on the field",
with solo students, but does that mean, feet on ground?

As far as x-c practice.. Students are limited to the valley, not crossing
the ridge line to the other side. Students can "practice" cross country
going down the valley to the next town and return, it's 14nm one way, but
there is a dry lake under them for 1/2 that distance. Or they can "cross the
valley", about 7nm to the far ridge and soar there, always being able to
return to the airport or the lake bed.

Never leave the safety of the lake bed below a set altitude, which will
provide final glide with ample safety margin for return. And the prevailing
wind is normally from the lake bed area to the airport.

BT


"Nolaminar" wrote in message
...
Does instructor have to on the ground when a student is flying?
Can the CFIG be towing or giving other instruction?
GA

Also, our insurance states that there will be an instructor "on the field",
with solo students, but does that mean, feet on ground?

My club http://www.soargbsc.org is insured by Costello and has the same
statement. We asked for a clarification and were informed that the
instructor has to be on the field to approve the flight. The instructor
is then free to perform other tasks - including flying his own glider
for fun (what a concept :-).

Tony V

Tony Verhulst tony.verhulst wrote:

My club http://www.soargbsc.org is insured by
Costello and has the same statement. We asked
for a clarification and were informed that the
instructor has to be on the field to approve the
flight. The instructor is then free to perform
other tasks - including flying his own glider for
fun (what a concept :-).

Does the insurance say whether the instructor approving the flight has to be
the same instructor who signed the student off to solo?

Does the insurance say whether the instructor approving the flight has to be
the same instructor who signed the student off to solo?

They said that it doesn't matter.

Tony V.

Tony wrote.The instructor
is then free to perform other tasks - including flying his own glider
for fun (what a concept :-).

I watched a first time solo, student deploy the spoilers and then disappear
below the cliff on the approach end to 19 at Truckee. His instructor was in the
can, taking a dump. All that was necessary to prevent this accident was for the
instructor to be watching with a hand held radio. A simple,"Close your
spoilers" would have been all it took. I think any instructor has a moral
responsibility to observe his students, especially during their first 3 solo's.
JJ Sinclair

Bob,

We've asked the same question and our answer came through
Costello, our insurance carrier. Paraphrasing here,
'The instructor must on the field (on the ground) and
be in a position to observe the takeoff.' Being in
the towplane that is towing the student doesn't count.

Of course, to us it seems, it doesn't matter if the
instructor is on the ground watching or in a towplane
towing or on the space station: he can't do anything
to help if something goes awry.

Ray Lovinggood
Carrboro, North Carolina, USA

'Nolaminar' wrote in message
...
Does instructor have to on the ground when a student
is flying?
Can the CFIG be towing or giving other instruction?
GA

We've asked the same question and our answer came through
Costello, our insurance carrier. Paraphrasing here,
'The instructor must on the field (on the ground) and
be in a position to observe the takeoff.' Being in
the towplane that is towing the student doesn't count.


At our club, the gliders have no radios, so the CFI
is really there for the launch and maybe tow (he can
still talk to the tow pilot on the radio).
This seems consistent with Costello and what our
insurance requires. Having the CFI ensure a preflight is
done, trim is set right for T/O, spoilers are
locked for T/O, tow rope isn't tangled, etc. can be done
on the ground right before tow.

Requiring a CFI for landing makes little sense to me
(other than for comic relief).