Briegleb 12B - Opinions?

Hey ya'll,

Any opinions/experience regarding the Briegleb 12B?

As always, I look to the vastness of your communal experience and appreciate
willingness to share it with others. This is a great group.

Curt

unfortunately, I'm afraid that most potential buyers for BG12's or similar
typically "cheap" gliders are there because they are new to gliding and
looking for a cheap glider...and most pilots who would have the experience
and enough knowledge to reasonably safely fly one also have enough
experience and knowledge to know they no long want to fly one.... I owned 2
BG12's back when I was more in the former category....I would not want one
today, nor would I like to see anyone without a lot of experience and skill
flying these type s today....aside from that, you have to remember they are
all experimental, and are all homebuilt, without any requirement to use
aircraft grade material or hardware, without the requirement to have to
inspections completed by A&I's, usually built by armatures as their first
and only attempt at building an airplane, and of course have no FAA support
through the issuance of AD's or service bulletins to warn of potential
failures..but on the other hand, I think a BG12 or a Monerai would make a
terrific Wind Tee at a local gliderport!
tim
"Eggs" wrote in message
news
Hey ya'll,

Any opinions/experience regarding the Briegleb 12B?

As always, I look to the vastness of your communal experience and
appreciate
willingness to share it with others. This is a great group.

Curt

"Tim Mara" wrote in message
. ..

unfortunately, I'm afraid that most potential buyers for BG12's or similar
typically "cheap" gliders are there because they are new to gliding and
looking for a cheap glider...

Well, blush, that's me.

and most pilots who would have the experience
and enough knowledge to reasonably safely fly one also have enough
experience and knowledge to know they no long[er] want to fly one....

Seems several people have had nice things to say about these little wooden
puppies in RAS over the years. Is there anything in particular that would
make this the case, aside from performance?

... nor would I like to see anyone without a lot of experience and skill
flying these types today....

Is this because of the handling/performance characteristics or because of a
fear of sub-standard construction techniques/materials?

are all experimental, and are all homebuilt, without any requirement to
use
aircraft grade material or hardware, without the requirement to have to
inspections completed by A&I's, usually built by armatures as their first
and only attempt at building an airplane, and of course have no FAA
support
through the issuance of AD's...

This, of course, is true of any homebuilt aircraft. I guess anyone who buys
instead of building runs a certian risk. The one I'm looking at was built in
1963 which makes it only a slight bit younger than me. If it's in no better
shape than I am...

On the other hand, some of these were built from kits produced by Gus
Briegleb, some from plans. Is there anyway to reliably determine the
heritage of a particular experimental aircraft?

failures..but on the other hand, I think a BG12 or a Monerai would make a
terrific Wind Tee at a local gliderport!
tim

Maybe a windsock from Sporty's would be a better investment. Anyone else
have any insight?

JJ? John? Bob? Ventus4? You guys have things to say about almost everything.

I am looking for a "cheap" plane. For starters, at least. Like everything
else I get involved with, whatever I get will likely end up costing me a
Citation at some point. (No, I can't afford one.)

Thanks, group.

Curt
East Texas, USA

Eggs wrote:
I am looking for a "cheap" plane. For starters, at least. Like everything
else I get involved with, whatever I get will likely end up costing me a
Citation at some point. (No, I can't afford one.)

What are your goals in the next 3 or 4 years, flying around the airport,
cross-country, contests? Where do you live? How much would you like to
spend? Do you know anyone that might be willing to partner with you in
the purchase of a used ship?

Marc

"Marc Ramsey" wrote in message
. com...

What are your goals in the next 3 or 4 years, flying around the airport,
cross-country, contests? Where do you live? How much would you like to
spend? Do you know anyone that might be willing to partner with you in
the purchase of a used ship?

Marc

Marc,

I live in East Texas, so far East I could toss a rock into Arkansas from my
office window. Assuming my office had a window. I anticipate flying around
the airport here until I get bored. There seems to be only one glider
operation nearby. If the clouds are right, and myself and my bird are up to
the challenge, I'll probably want to try some short XC. Honestly, I don't
aspire to entering the Nationals or trying to break any world records.

As to cost, I don't want to spend more than fifty thousand and my wife
doesn't want me to spend more than fifty. Dollars. Seriously, I simply want
to fulfill two old dreams... building (or restoring) a glider with my
father, and to get my ticket - glider. I might even move on to airplanes in
that I can pretend the expense serves a more useful 'purpose' than mere
recreation.

The BG-12 seems to have a pretty decent L/D for a wooden homebuilt. Very
light wing loading would doubtless make for poor penetration, but like I
said, no contests are planned. Assuming this one is built OK, it claims a
considerably better L/D and payload than either the Duster or Woodstock and
it can be purchased for less that the cost of materials to build either of
those. Plus, it's built.

And, no, I don't think I'll find a partner for a real glider. Everyone
around here that I talk to about flying a plane without an engine seems to
think I've lost whatever remained of my mind.

Sigh.

Curt

10000 Euro will buy you a Libelle in Europe, there's a club libelle for sale
for under E6000 that needs a new gelcoat. Regel that with your dad, a much
better bet! The other alternative is ( shock/ horror ) one of the Marske
flying wings, manufacturer still liquid and available for advice, parts and
support.

Best bet is to buy a complete aircraft and restore a sailboat with your
dad - much safer!

Ian


"Eggs" wrote in message
t...

"Marc Ramsey" wrote in message
. com...

What are your goals in the next 3 or 4 years, flying around the airport,
cross-country, contests? Where do you live? How much would you like to
spend? Do you know anyone that might be willing to partner with you in
the purchase of a used ship?

Marc

Marc,

I live in East Texas, so far East I could toss a rock into Arkansas from
my
office window. Assuming my office had a window. I anticipate flying around
the airport here until I get bored. There seems to be only one glider
operation nearby. If the clouds are right, and myself and my bird are up
to
the challenge, I'll probably want to try some short XC. Honestly, I don't
aspire to entering the Nationals or trying to break any world records.

As to cost, I don't want to spend more than fifty thousand and my wife
doesn't want me to spend more than fifty. Dollars. Seriously, I simply
want
to fulfill two old dreams... building (or restoring) a glider with my
father, and to get my ticket - glider. I might even move on to airplanes
in
that I can pretend the expense serves a more useful 'purpose' than mere
recreation.

The BG-12 seems to have a pretty decent L/D for a wooden homebuilt. Very
light wing loading would doubtless make for poor penetration, but like I
said, no contests are planned. Assuming this one is built OK, it claims a
considerably better L/D and payload than either the Duster or Woodstock
and
it can be purchased for less that the cost of materials to build either of
those. Plus, it's built.

And, no, I don't think I'll find a partner for a real glider. Everyone
around here that I talk to about flying a plane without an engine seems to
think I've lost whatever remained of my mind.

Sigh.

Curt

Eggs wrote:
The BG-12 seems to have a pretty decent L/D for a wooden homebuilt. Very
light wing loading would doubtless make for poor penetration, but like I
said, no contests are planned. Assuming this one is built OK, it claims a
considerably better L/D and payload than either the Duster or Woodstock and
it can be purchased for less that the cost of materials to build either of
those. Plus, it's built.

I've never flown a BG-12, nor do I know much about them. I'll suggest
some other choices in the under $10,000 range, that may be better
choices for your early soaring experiences.

Dusters show up on the market periodically, they are much better
handling gliders, and the construction techniques are somewhat less
error prone. Looking at the SSA classifieds, there is a Ka8 in
Louisiana that needs restoration, a sweet flying wood and steel tube
glider that would be great for around the airport and short
cross-country flights. The 1-26 (all metal) has similar performance, is
also lots of fun, there are hundreds of them around, and an active group
of people who race them and can help out with tips and finding parts.
For better performance, look for a K6E (wood) or a 1-23 (metal).

If you're willing to spend in the $10,000 to $15,000 range, your options
open up a bit more, including the 1-34 (metal), and some of the early
standard class glass gliders, like the Standard Libelle and Standard Cirrus.

The advantage of all of these gliders is that when it comes time to
sell, you'll probably get back every penny you paid, if not more.

The best places to look for used gliders in the US a

http://www.wingsandwheels.com/want_ads.htm
http://www.ssa.org/Classifieds/
http://gliderforum.com/

Marc

Hi Curt,
I try to stay out of this kind of discussion because anything I say will tread
on someone's toes. But,you went trolling for me, so here goes.

The BG-12 is (was) a good machine in its day, but that *day* was a long time
ago. The first thing I would determine is; How has it been stored for all those
years? Moisture is the arch enemy of wood and east Texas is a bit on the wet
side, isn't it? I don't want to scare you off, but BG-12's have come apart in
recent years due to undetected, wood rot.

The next problem, in my mind would be the flaps only, configuration (see recent
discussion on ras.) A good friend of mine built and flew a BG-12 for years and
he told me, He never knew where that sucker was going on landing. I'm not
bad-mouthing flaps, but they do take a bit of getting used to and low time
pilots don't need to be presented with something new, come landing time.

The BG-12 wing is heavy and you may find your friends hiding when they see you
start to assemble your new prize possession. Other than that, She's Cherry. I
personally would think a Duster is a better choice, but have someone who knows
what he's looking at, inspect for the dreaded, Wood Rot.
JJ Sinclair

Get a ka-8 or ka-6.
Great sailplane to overhaul. Look good, fly well and they have resale.
GA

a far, far better bet would be to buy a factory manufactured AND Certified
design....I cannot say enough on how important it is to have a design that
has a track record, and a record that can be tracked (the FAA only issues
AD's on certified aircraft). Also having a glider produced by a real
aircraft manufacturer at the very least should have aircraft grade
materials, engineering, and a rigorous flight testing program.
If you're seriously interested in restoring a glider the Vintage Sailplane
Association is a good place to look for gliders or sellers who may have or
others that may know of good projects to sell for low cost and even good
older designs that you can have now that are already in airworthy condition.
Too often I see buyers look only at L/D as a basis for their buying
decision, but in a glider if you want to go someplace you have to be able to
stay up too.....for beginners it's pretty hard to beat gliders like K6's or
K8's as entry level "Sailplanes", these will cover a lot of ground if you
fly them like K6's and K8's....a bit slower than some, but they fly very
nice, are quite forgiving and when you do end up landing out can do so
slowly, predictably and safely.....and if you're going to fly locally like
you said it makes little difference how much territory you cover if it's all
in one place!
tim



I live in East Texas, so far East I could toss a rock into Arkansas from
my
office window. Assuming my office had a window. I anticipate flying around
the airport here until I get bored. There seems to be only one glider
operation nearby. If the clouds are right, and myself and my bird are up
to
the challenge, I'll probably want to try some short XC. Honestly, I don't
aspire to entering the Nationals or trying to break any world records.

As to cost, I don't want to spend more than fifty thousand and my wife
doesn't want me to spend more than fifty. Dollars. Seriously, I simply
want
to fulfill two old dreams... building (or restoring) a glider with my
father, and to get my ticket - glider. I might even move on to airplanes
in
that I can pretend the expense serves a more useful 'purpose' than mere
recreation.

The BG-12 seems to have a pretty decent L/D for a wooden homebuilt. Very
light wing loading would doubtless make for poor penetration, but like I
said, no contests are planned. Assuming this one is built OK, it claims a
considerably better L/D and payload than either the Duster or Woodstock
and
it can be purchased for less that the cost of materials to build either of
those. Plus, it's built.

And, no, I don't think I'll find a partner for a real glider. Everyone
around here that I talk to about flying a plane without an engine seems to
think I've lost whatever remained of my mind.

Sigh.

Curt