Commercial - StrePla Competitive Upgrade

Hi,

I'm sorry about this being the 3rd commercial post I've done in the last day
or so. I tend to do them in spurts... I promise to slow down after this
one.

Being a US dealer for StrePla and pocket*StrePla and a member of Team
StrePla I have found that many customers are impressed with the features of
the products, but they are already using SeeYou. Therefore I am now
offering a "competitive upgrade" option for SeeYou users.

If you are currently using SeeYou and you are interested in using
pocket*StrePla and StrePla, you can buy the StrePla-Bundle-Upgrade for $294.
It includes the full version of both StrePla and pocket*StrePla. The price
is $74 less than buying both StrePla and pocket*StrePla and is less than the
price of WinPilot Pro. You will be asked to enter your SeeYou registration
key when you place the order.

StrePla offers some unique features like free US Sectional Aeronautical
charts. pocket*StrePla offers full access to all the maps used in StrePla
and some very nice in-flight task optimization features that are great for
pilots doing OLC (Online Contest) flights or FAI free distance flights.

Of course, you may download and try the software before you buy it.

Thank you,

Paul Remde
Cumulus Soaring, Inc.
http://www.cumulus-soaring.com

Paul,

having problems selling software, eh?

Speaking as a software ingeneer myself I think it's a pitty you have to
undertake such measures when selling a product to a small group of people
like glider pilots. Would you really like to see SeeYou guys strike back the
same way?

For my credit - I have evaluated both programs before purchase and have
chosen SeeYou over Strepla because I could find all of the features I needed
without using the manual.

Good luck...
John

"Paul Remde" wrote in message
news:huLqc.34513$6f5.3442400@attbi_s54...
Hi,

I'm sorry about this being the 3rd commercial post I've done in the last
day
or so. I tend to do them in spurts... I promise to slow down after this
one.

Being a US dealer for StrePla and pocket*StrePla and a member of Team
StrePla I have found that many customers are impressed with the features
of
the products, but they are already using SeeYou. Therefore I am now
offering a "competitive upgrade" option for SeeYou users.

If you are currently using SeeYou and you are interested in using
pocket*StrePla and StrePla, you can buy the StrePla-Bundle-Upgrade for
$294.
It includes the full version of both StrePla and pocket*StrePla. The
price
is $74 less than buying both StrePla and pocket*StrePla and is less than
the
price of WinPilot Pro. You will be asked to enter your SeeYou
registration
key when you place the order.

StrePla offers some unique features like free US Sectional Aeronautical
charts. pocket*StrePla offers full access to all the maps used in StrePla
and some very nice in-flight task optimization features that are great for
pilots doing OLC (Online Contest) flights or FAI free distance flights.

Of course, you may download and try the software before you buy it.

Thank you,

Paul Remde
Cumulus Soaring, Inc.
http://www.cumulus-soaring.com

SeeYou users.

Forwarding your SeeYou key to a third party is not allowed according to the
license you have agreed upon when installing the SeeYou. A snip out of the
license agreement: "After you have received the registration key for the
software it is not possible to return or resell it without permission of the
authors of this software."

What Paul is asking you to do is illegal from where SeeYou and Strepla
businesses come from.

It is also very questionable in terms of commercial ethics, but I hope we
don't have to go into that on a public newsgroup. Being an ever optimist, I
am sure we (the parties involved) can talk as adults even though we are
competitors on a free market. It's been that way so far.

Enjoy using the software you like best.
Andrej Kolar
--
glider pilots use
http://www.SeeYou.ws/

"Paul Remde" wrote in message
news:huLqc.34513$6f5.3442400@attbi_s54...
Hi,

I'm sorry about this being the 3rd commercial post I've done in the last
day
or so. I tend to do them in spurts... I promise to slow down after this
one.

Being a US dealer for StrePla and pocket*StrePla and a member of Team
StrePla I have found that many customers are impressed with the features
of
the products, but they are already using SeeYou. Therefore I am now
offering a "competitive upgrade" option for SeeYou users.

If you are currently using SeeYou and you are interested in using
pocket*StrePla and StrePla, you can buy the StrePla-Bundle-Upgrade for
$294.
It includes the full version of both StrePla and pocket*StrePla. The
price
is $74 less than buying both StrePla and pocket*StrePla and is less than
the
price of WinPilot Pro. You will be asked to enter your SeeYou
registration
key when you place the order.

StrePla offers some unique features like free US Sectional Aeronautical
charts. pocket*StrePla offers full access to all the maps used in StrePla
and some very nice in-flight task optimization features that are great for
pilots doing OLC (Online Contest) flights or FAI free distance flights.

Of course, you may download and try the software before you buy it.

Thank you,

Paul Remde
Cumulus Soaring, Inc.
http://www.cumulus-soaring.com

Oh...

I gotta thank you for free advertizing of SeeYou on Strepla order pages

Andrej
--
glider pilots
http://www.SeeYou.ws/

"Andrej Kolar" wrote in message
...
SeeYou users.

Forwarding your SeeYou key to a third party is not allowed according to
the
license you have agreed upon when installing the SeeYou. A snip out of the
license agreement: "After you have received the registration key for the
software it is not possible to return or resell it without permission of
the
authors of this software."

What Paul is asking you to do is illegal from where SeeYou and Strepla
businesses come from.

It is also very questionable in terms of commercial ethics, but I hope we
don't have to go into that on a public newsgroup. Being an ever optimist,
I
am sure we (the parties involved) can talk as adults even though we are
competitors on a free market. It's been that way so far.

Enjoy using the software you like best.
Andrej Kolar
--
glider pilots use
http://www.SeeYou.ws/

"Paul Remde" wrote in message
news:huLqc.34513$6f5.3442400@attbi_s54...
Hi,

I'm sorry about this being the 3rd commercial post I've done in the last
day
or so. I tend to do them in spurts... I promise to slow down after
this
one.

Being a US dealer for StrePla and pocket*StrePla and a member of Team
StrePla I have found that many customers are impressed with the features
of
the products, but they are already using SeeYou. Therefore I am now
offering a "competitive upgrade" option for SeeYou users.

If you are currently using SeeYou and you are interested in using
pocket*StrePla and StrePla, you can buy the StrePla-Bundle-Upgrade for
$294.
It includes the full version of both StrePla and pocket*StrePla. The
price
is $74 less than buying both StrePla and pocket*StrePla and is less than
the
price of WinPilot Pro. You will be asked to enter your SeeYou
registration
key when you place the order.

StrePla offers some unique features like free US Sectional Aeronautical
charts. pocket*StrePla offers full access to all the maps used in
StrePla
and some very nice in-flight task optimization features that are great
for
pilots doing OLC (Online Contest) flights or FAI free distance flights.

Of course, you may download and try the software before you buy it.

Thank you,

Paul Remde
Cumulus Soaring, Inc.
http://www.cumulus-soaring.com

Hi Andrej and everyone,

Let me say for the record that SeeYou, like StrePla, is a great product and
the SeeYou team supports it very well. I am trying to do a very good job
selling and supporting StrePla. Like you, I want to have a friendly
relationship with you both in public and private. We have a lot in common.

However, I am very surprised by your response. I am being completely
sincere when I say that I don't see anything illegal or even questionable
about this marketing technique. My marketing approach in offering a
"Competitive Upgrade" is very common in the software industry. For example,
for years you could upgrade to the latest version of Microsoft Excel by
sending in the license key or box top from Lotus 123. The same was true
for upgrades to the latest version of Corel Draw from competitive products.

I'm not sure I follow you note below in regard to reselling or returning
without permission of the authors. I'm not going to use their SeeYou
license key or pass it on to anyone else. Therefore they are not reselling
or returning it. I am an ethical person that can be trusted. I just want
to verify that they are actually a SeeYou user and not simply saying they
are a SeeYou user.

I am frustrated by your statement that this marketing strategy is unethical.
I am an extremely ethical person with great integrity. I am just trying to
give customers a slightly less expensive way to get into a bundle of
pocket*StrePla and StrePla. The upgrade does not apply to upgrades to
StrePla only, just the bundle.

In regard to the "free marketing for SeeYou". I have always tried to show
customers all the options before they buy. That is clear in the hardware
and software comparisons on my web site. I often mention to customers that
there are 2 very good soaring flight planning and analysis programs
available - StrePla and SeeYou. I sell StrePla and I like it very much. I
imagine that some people will buy from me because they see something in
StrePla they like, or they feel I will offer good support.

I am sincerely very interested in feedback from others as to whether they
think my "Competitive Upgrade" marketing strategy is at all illegal or
unethical. If people think I'm doing something very wrong I will gladly
change my strategy so as to keep my reputation intact. But really don't
think I'm doing anything bad. Really.

Sincerely,

Paul Remde
Cumulus Soaring Supplies
http://www.cumulus-soaring.com


"Andrej Kolar" wrote in message
...
SeeYou users.

Forwarding your SeeYou key to a third party is not allowed according to
the
license you have agreed upon when installing the SeeYou. A snip out of the
license agreement: "After you have received the registration key for the
software it is not possible to return or resell it without permission of
the
authors of this software."

What Paul is asking you to do is illegal from where SeeYou and Strepla
businesses come from.

It is also very questionable in terms of commercial ethics, but I hope we
don't have to go into that on a public newsgroup. Being an ever optimist,
I
am sure we (the parties involved) can talk as adults even though we are
competitors on a free market. It's been that way so far.

Enjoy using the software you like best.
Andrej Kolar
--
glider pilots use
http://www.SeeYou.ws/

"Paul Remde" wrote in message
news:huLqc.34513$6f5.3442400@attbi_s54...
Hi,

I'm sorry about this being the 3rd commercial post I've done in the last
day
or so. I tend to do them in spurts... I promise to slow down after
this
one.

Being a US dealer for StrePla and pocket*StrePla and a member of Team
StrePla I have found that many customers are impressed with the features
of
the products, but they are already using SeeYou. Therefore I am now
offering a "competitive upgrade" option for SeeYou users.

If you are currently using SeeYou and you are interested in using
pocket*StrePla and StrePla, you can buy the StrePla-Bundle-Upgrade for
$294.
It includes the full version of both StrePla and pocket*StrePla. The
price
is $74 less than buying both StrePla and pocket*StrePla and is less than
the
price of WinPilot Pro. You will be asked to enter your SeeYou
registration
key when you place the order.

StrePla offers some unique features like free US Sectional Aeronautical
charts. pocket*StrePla offers full access to all the maps used in
StrePla
and some very nice in-flight task optimization features that are great
for
pilots doing OLC (Online Contest) flights or FAI free distance flights.

Of course, you may download and try the software before you buy it.

Thank you,

Paul Remde
Cumulus Soaring, Inc.
http://www.cumulus-soaring.com

I'm not sure I follow you note below in regard to reselling or returning
without permission of the authors. I'm not going to use their SeeYou
license key or pass it on to anyone else. Therefore they are not reselling
or returning it. I am an ethical person that can be trusted. I just want
to verify that they are actually a SeeYou user and not simply saying they
are a SeeYou user.

Let me preface what I have to say by stating that for several years I
worked for Tim Mara at Wings and Wheels, and now do all the US Support
for LX Navigation and flyWithCE products. But, the following
statement clearly prohibits what you are doing.

"After you have received the registration key for the
software it is not possible to return or resell it without permission
of the
authors of this software."

Users sending you their code are clearly "returning" it. In addition,
they are "selling" it because you have given them a discount, which
amounts a monetary value. You are buying their code.

To be honest, when I first read your post, I thought it was a great
business strategy. I have no personal problems with what you are
doing. But the SeeYou EULA clearly states that this is not correct.

Also, I think that there are alot of people who don't care a message
on RAS everytime you add a new mount, cable, update your website, ect.
I know that Tim updates his website 3-4 times EVERYDAY, with new
products, want-ads, ect. We probably get 25-50 new products every
year, but we don't put a message on RAS for everyone. Latley, your
posts have increased to 2-3 per week, for every little thing that you
get. Clearly, the business you recieve from these posts justify the
negative feedback you recieve from some. But, at the same time,
Standard Oil got alot of business too, but that didn't make their
tactics right.

Kevin Christner

Hi,

I'm not convinced that sending their code to me to prove they purchase
SeeYou is "returning it". I'm not asking them to stop using it.

Paul Remde

"Kevin Christner" wrote in message
...
I'm not sure I follow you note below in regard to reselling or returning
without permission of the authors. I'm not going to use their SeeYou
license key or pass it on to anyone else. Therefore they are not
reselling
or returning it. I am an ethical person that can be trusted. I just
want
to verify that they are actually a SeeYou user and not simply saying
they
are a SeeYou user.

Let me preface what I have to say by stating that for several years I
worked for Tim Mara at Wings and Wheels, and now do all the US Support
for LX Navigation and flyWithCE products. But, the following
statement clearly prohibits what you are doing.

"After you have received the registration key for the
software it is not possible to return or resell it without permission
of the
authors of this software."

Users sending you their code are clearly "returning" it. In addition,
they are "selling" it because you have given them a discount, which
amounts a monetary value. You are buying their code.

To be honest, when I first read your post, I thought it was a great
business strategy. I have no personal problems with what you are
doing. But the SeeYou EULA clearly states that this is not correct.

Also, I think that there are alot of people who don't care a message
on RAS everytime you add a new mount, cable, update your website, ect.
I know that Tim updates his website 3-4 times EVERYDAY, with new
products, want-ads, ect. We probably get 25-50 new products every
year, but we don't put a message on RAS for everyone. Latley, your
posts have increased to 2-3 per week, for every little thing that you
get. Clearly, the business you recieve from these posts justify the
negative feedback you recieve from some. But, at the same time,
Standard Oil got alot of business too, but that didn't make their
tactics right.

Kevin Christner

Hi,

I now think I have a better understanding of where the SeeYou team is coming
from on this issue. They sent me a note that explained their position more
clearly. They feel that if I ask their customers to send me their
registration key I am asking their them to break the contract between SeeYou
and the customer that prohibits sending the key to anyone. The wording in
their agreement isn't clear to me, but I respect their position. One
interesting point they made is that the registration key does not
necessarily prove that the person purchased it. I must regretfully agree -
it's too bad some soaring pilots don't respect their license agreements and
don't pay for keys for themselves. Especially in such a small industry.
Software developers deserve to get paid for their efforts for us glider
pilots.

Therefore I have changed the wording on my web site such that I no longer
ask SeeYou customers to send me their registration key to get the
competitive upgrade to StrePla. I will never ask anyone to provide a key to
me and will delete it if I receive one. If potential StrePla-Bundle-Upgrade
customers want to receive a "Competitive Upgrade" discount they must provide
some form of proof of purchase of SeeYou. That could be in the form of a
receipt or something similar I guess.

I have sent a note to them inquiring as to whether that solution is
acceptable but have not yet heard back from them.

I certainly respect their efforts to create tools for the soaring community.

I'm sincerely interested to know if anyone thinks my new approach is
unacceptable. I sincerely strive to be a very ethical person.

Thank you,

Paul Remde
Cumulus Soaring, Inc.

"Paul Remde" wrote in message
news:fS9rc.30067$gr.3034945@attbi_s52...
Hi,

I'm not convinced that sending their code to me to prove they purchase
SeeYou is "returning it". I'm not asking them to stop using it.

Paul Remde

"Kevin Christner" wrote in message
...
I'm not sure I follow you note below in regard to reselling or
returning
without permission of the authors. I'm not going to use their SeeYou
license key or pass it on to anyone else. Therefore they are not
reselling
or returning it. I am an ethical person that can be trusted. I just
want
to verify that they are actually a SeeYou user and not simply saying
they
are a SeeYou user.

Let me preface what I have to say by stating that for several years I
worked for Tim Mara at Wings and Wheels, and now do all the US Support
for LX Navigation and flyWithCE products. But, the following
statement clearly prohibits what you are doing.

"After you have received the registration key for the
software it is not possible to return or resell it without permission
of the
authors of this software."

Users sending you their code are clearly "returning" it. In addition,
they are "selling" it because you have given them a discount, which
amounts a monetary value. You are buying their code.

To be honest, when I first read your post, I thought it was a great
business strategy. I have no personal problems with what you are
doing. But the SeeYou EULA clearly states that this is not correct.

Also, I think that there are alot of people who don't care a message
on RAS everytime you add a new mount, cable, update your website, ect.
I know that Tim updates his website 3-4 times EVERYDAY, with new
products, want-ads, ect. We probably get 25-50 new products every
year, but we don't put a message on RAS for everyone. Latley, your
posts have increased to 2-3 per week, for every little thing that you
get. Clearly, the business you recieve from these posts justify the
negative feedback you recieve from some. But, at the same time,
Standard Oil got alot of business too, but that didn't make their
tactics right.

Kevin Christner

Andrej Kolar wrote:

SeeYou users.

Forwarding your SeeYou key to a third party is not allowed according to the
license you have agreed upon when installing the SeeYou. A snip out of the
license agreement: "After you have received the registration key for the
software it is not possible to return or resell it without permission of the
authors of this software."

What Paul is asking you to do is illegal from where SeeYou and Strepla
businesses come from.

It is also very questionable in terms of commercial ethics, but I hope we
don't have to go into that on a public newsgroup. Being an ever optimist, I
am sure we (the parties involved) can talk as adults even though we are
competitors on a free market. It's been that way so far.

Enjoy using the software you like best.
Andrej Kolar

While you are completely right, I find this kind of software licence
highly questionnable. Why should commercial software be different of
any other commercial product, i.e. when you don't want to use it any
more, but it is still usable, why can't you sell it to anybody wanting
to use it? Because of this kind of restrictions, I will probably always
avoid to buy such software.

I see nothing in this licensing statement that would
prevent what Paul is doing. The user isn't returning
or reselling the product only proving that he purchased
it.



At 12:36 20 May 2004, Paul Remde wrote:
Hi Andrej and everyone,

Let me say for the record that SeeYou, like StrePla,
is a great product and
the SeeYou team supports it very well. I am trying
to do a very good job
selling and supporting StrePla. Like you, I want to
have a friendly
relationship with you both in public and private.
We have a lot in common.

However, I am very surprised by your response. I am
being completely
sincere when I say that I don't see anything illegal
or even questionable
about this marketing technique. My marketing approach
in offering a
'Competitive Upgrade' is very common in the software
industry. For example,
for years you could upgrade to the latest version of
Microsoft Excel by
sending in the license key or box top from Lotus 123.
The same was true
for upgrades to the latest version of Corel Draw from
competitive products.

I'm not sure I follow you note below in regard to reselling
or returning
without permission of the authors. I'm not going to
use their SeeYou
license key or pass it on to anyone else. Therefore
they are not reselling
or returning it. I am an ethical person that can be
trusted. I just want
to verify that they are actually a SeeYou user and
not simply saying they
are a SeeYou user.

I am frustrated by your statement that this marketing
strategy is unethical.
I am an extremely ethical person with great integrity.
I am just trying to
give customers a slightly less expensive way to get
into a bundle of
pocket*StrePla and StrePla. The upgrade does not apply
to upgrades to
StrePla only, just the bundle.

In regard to the 'free marketing for SeeYou'. I have
always tried to show
customers all the options before they buy. That is
clear in the hardware
and software comparisons on my web site. I often mention
to customers that
there are 2 very good soaring flight planning and analysis
programs
available - StrePla and SeeYou. I sell StrePla and
I like it very much. I
imagine that some people will buy from me because they
see something in
StrePla they like, or they feel I will offer good support.

I am sincerely very interested in feedback from others
as to whether they
think my 'Competitive Upgrade' marketing strategy is
at all illegal or
unethical. If people think I'm doing something very
wrong I will gladly
change my strategy so as to keep my reputation intact.
But really don't
think I'm doing anything bad. Really.

Sincerely,

Paul Remde
Cumulus Soaring Supplies
http://www.cumulus-soaring.com


'Andrej Kolar' wrote in message
...
SeeYou users.

Forwarding your SeeYou key to a third party is not
allowed according to
the
license you have agreed upon when installing the SeeYou.
A snip out of the
license agreement: 'After you have received the registration
key for the
software it is not possible to return or resell it
without permission of
the
authors of this software.'

What Paul is asking you to do is illegal from where
SeeYou and Strepla
businesses come from.

It is also very questionable in terms of commercial
ethics, but I hope we
don't have to go into that on a public newsgroup.
Being an ever optimist,
I
am sure we (the parties involved) can talk as adults
even though we are
competitors on a free market. It's been that way so
far.

Enjoy using the software you like best.
Andrej Kolar
--
glider pilots use
http://www.SeeYou.ws/

'Paul Remde' wrote in message
news:huLqc.34513$6f5.3442400@attbi_s54...
Hi,

I'm sorry about this being the 3rd commercial post
I've done in the last
day
or so. I tend to do them in spurts... I promise
to slow down after
this
one.

Being a US dealer for StrePla and pocket*StrePla
and a member of Team
StrePla I have found that many customers are impressed
with the features
of
the products, but they are already using SeeYou.
Therefore I am now
offering a 'competitive upgrade' option for SeeYou
users.

If you are currently using SeeYou and you are interested
in using
pocket*StrePla and StrePla, you can buy the StrePla-Bundle-Upgra
de for
$294.
It includes the full version of both StrePla and
pocket*StrePla. The
price
is $74 less than buying both StrePla and pocket*StrePla
and is less than
the
price of WinPilot Pro. You will be asked to enter
your SeeYou
registration
key when you place the order.

StrePla offers some unique features like free US
Sectional Aeronautical
charts. pocket*StrePla offers full access to all
the maps used in
StrePla
and some very nice in-flight task optimization features
that are great
for
pilots doing OLC (Online Contest) flights or FAI
free distance flights.

Of course, you may download and try the software
before you buy it.

Thank you,

Paul Remde
Cumulus Soaring, Inc.
http://www.cumulus-soaring.com