Motorgliders and TE Probes

Hi,

I have a question for motorglider owners. I sell variometers and TE probes
but I'm still learning. A customer is building a Europa motorglider and he
is wondering if he can mount a TE probe on the fin and connect it to the
variometer, or will the propwash cause problems. Is it necessary to use
some sort of pneumatic switch to switch between TE and static input for the
variometer?

His pitot and static ports are on a boom that is mounted to the wing.

Thank you,

Paul Remde
Cumulus Soaring, Inc.
http://www.cumulus-soaring.com

Paul Remde wrote:

is wondering if he can mount a TE probe on the fin and connect it to the
variometer, or will the propwash cause problems.

The vario will not be too accurate in the propwash, but who needs an
accurate vario when the prop is turning?

Is it necessary to use
some sort of pneumatic switch to switch between TE and static input for the
variometer?

Not necessary, but recommended.

Stefan

Hi,

I received a few very nice e-mails from reputable sources recommending the
use of a pneumatic switch to switch between TE and Static input for a
motorglider. That is good information. This newsgroup is fantastic!

It was suggested that the switch could be made to be automatic. That sounds
great. It is my understanding that even very small leaks can cause large
inaccuracies in TE functionality - so we must be careful about that of
course. Does anyone have any recommendations for manual or automatic
pneumatic switches? It would be great to get feedback from someone who has
done this already.

Thank you,

Paul Remde
Cumulus Soaring, Inc.
http://www.cumulus-soaring.com

"Paul Remde" wrote in message
news:NwKod.141170$R05.69144@attbi_s53...
Hi,

I have a question for motorglider owners. I sell variometers and TE
probes
but I'm still learning. A customer is building a Europa motorglider and
he
is wondering if he can mount a TE probe on the fin and connect it to the
variometer, or will the propwash cause problems. Is it necessary to use
some sort of pneumatic switch to switch between TE and static input for
the
variometer?

His pitot and static ports are on a boom that is mounted to the wing.

Thank you,

Paul Remde
Cumulus Soaring, Inc.
http://www.cumulus-soaring.com

I think most of the newer variometer systems can electronically calculate
total energy, without the need for any TE probe...I have tried this and
while I haven't met with great success in comparison to using an actual TE
probe on my DG-400, I would speculate that the Europa is not going to be
high enough performing to know the difference in the very minor differences
between a probe and what the vario system will electronically compensate. I
will say that when I tried the electronic setup in my DG, there was a gust
filter the previous owner had installed, which I didn't know about until
later...after removing that filter, my TE probe was much more accurate, but
my guess is that electronically I could have compensated the system fairly
accurately.

Steve.

Paul:

I got a nice manual pneumatic switch for use in my oxygen system from
Mountain High a few years ago. You might check with them.

Ray Warshaw

"Paul Remde" wrote in message
news:f%Lod.141383$R05.121337@attbi_s53...
Hi,

I received a few very nice e-mails from reputable sources recommending the
use of a pneumatic switch to switch between TE and Static input for a
motorglider. That is good information. This newsgroup is fantastic!

It was suggested that the switch could be made to be automatic. That
sounds
great. It is my understanding that even very small leaks can cause large
inaccuracies in TE functionality - so we must be careful about that of
course. Does anyone have any recommendations for manual or automatic
pneumatic switches? It would be great to get feedback from someone who
has
done this already.

Thank you,

Paul Remde
Cumulus Soaring, Inc.
http://www.cumulus-soaring.com

"Paul Remde" wrote in message
news:NwKod.141170$R05.69144@attbi_s53...
Hi,

I have a question for motorglider owners. I sell variometers and TE
probes
but I'm still learning. A customer is building a Europa motorglider and
he
is wondering if he can mount a TE probe on the fin and connect it to the
variometer, or will the propwash cause problems. Is it necessary to use
some sort of pneumatic switch to switch between TE and static input for
the
variometer?

His pitot and static ports are on a boom that is mounted to the wing.

Thank you,

Paul Remde
Cumulus Soaring, Inc.
http://www.cumulus-soaring.com

Paul Remde wrote:
Hi,

I have a question for motorglider owners. I sell variometers and TE probes
but I'm still learning. A customer is building a Europa motorglider and he
is wondering if he can mount a TE probe on the fin and connect it to the
variometer, or will the propwash cause problems.

The reading will bounce around, but usable except when trying to center
weak lift while under power.

Is it necessary to use
some sort of pneumatic switch to switch between TE and static input for the
variometer?

It would likely help.


His pitot and static ports are on a boom that is mounted to the wing.

Since he is building it, I suggest he consider a TE tube on the wing,
clear of the prop wash. That should be easy, since he is already doing
that with the pitot and static. Or, use a vario with electronic TE and
just use the pitot/static.

--
Change "netto" to "net" to email me directly

Eric Greenwell
Washington State
USA

Miniature toggle routing valves are also available
through MSC Industrial Supply Co. mail order.

This is page 3950 of their on-line PDF catalog. Note
the routing valve at mid-page.

http://tinyurl.com/5hv9o

This is their web site.

http://tinyurl.com/629x5




At 20:30 23 November 2004, Tim Mara wrote:
Clippard Industries in Cincinnati Ohio makes several
types of Pneumatic
switches.....
these were commonly used years ago back when sailplane
pilots used to have
to make their own and a few variometer manufacturers
like Richard Ball made
alternative Pneumatic inputs for Netto's and Speed
to Fly variometers from
normal TE variometers
tim

'Paul Remde' wrote in message
news:f%Lod.141383$R05.121337@attbi_s53...
Hi,

I received a few very nice e-mails from reputable
sources recommending the
use of a pneumatic switch to switch between TE and
Static input for a
motorglider. That is good information. This newsgroup
is fantastic!

It was suggested that the switch could be made to
be automatic. That
sounds
great. It is my understanding that even very small
leaks can cause large
inaccuracies in TE functionality - so we must be careful
about that of
course. Does anyone have any recommendations for
manual or automatic
pneumatic switches? It would be great to get feedback
from someone who
has
done this already.

Thank you,

Paul Remde
Cumulus Soaring, Inc.
http://www.cumulus-soaring.com

'Paul Remde' wrote in message
news:NwKod.141170$R05.69144@attbi_s53...
Hi,

I have a question for motorglider owners. I sell
variometers and TE
probes
but I'm still learning. A customer is building a
Europa motorglider and
he
is wondering if he can mount a TE probe on the fin
and connect it to the
variometer, or will the propwash cause problems.
Is it necessary to use
some sort of pneumatic switch to switch between TE
and static input for
the
variometer?

His pitot and static ports are on a boom that is mounted
to the wing.

Thank you,

Paul Remde
Cumulus Soaring, Inc.
http://www.cumulus-soaring.com

My Guess on the Europa is that with the front mounted Propeller and
the rather High Vertical Tail, He could just mount it has High as
possible on the Vertical fin and have little problem with the TE Prob.
I suspect that most of the prop wash would miss the TE prob anyway.

Brian

On Tue, 23 Nov 2004 14:49:21 -0800, Tim Mara wrote:

Clippard Industries in Cincinnati Ohio makes several types of Pneumatic
switches.....
these were commonly used years ago back when sailplane pilots used to have
to make their own and a few variometer manufacturers like Richard Ball made
alternative Pneumatic inputs for Netto's and Speed to Fly variometers from
normal TE variometers
tim

"Paul Remde" wrote in message
news:f%Lod.141383$R05.121337@attbi_s53...
Hi,

I received a few very nice e-mails from reputable sources recommending the
use of a pneumatic switch to switch between TE and Static input for a
motorglider. That is good information. This newsgroup is fantastic!

It was suggested that the switch could be made to be automatic. That
sounds
great. It is my understanding that even very small leaks can cause large
inaccuracies in TE functionality - so we must be careful about that of
course. Does anyone have any recommendations for manual or automatic
pneumatic switches? It would be great to get feedback from someone who
has
done this already.

Thank you,

Paul Remde
Cumulus Soaring, Inc.
http://www.cumulus-soaring.com

"Paul Remde" wrote in message
news:NwKod.141170$R05.69144@attbi_s53...
Hi,

I have a question for motorglider owners. I sell variometers and TE
probes
but I'm still learning. A customer is building a Europa motorglider and
he
is wondering if he can mount a TE probe on the fin and connect it to the
variometer, or will the propwash cause problems. Is it necessary to use
some sort of pneumatic switch to switch between TE and static input for
the
variometer?

His pitot and static ports are on a boom that is mounted to the wing.

Thank you,

Paul Remde
Cumulus Soaring, Inc.
http://www.cumulus-soaring.com





I mounted a vertical TE Probe on the top of the fin on our SF25C FALKE
motorglider, connected to a dedicated vario (Borgelt B40). The
aircraft already had a Winter vario connected directly to the static
ports which acts more like a VSI.
The TE probe seems to work very well. The sensing holes near the tip
of the probe would be (from memory) about 10 inces above the top of
the fin.
Regarding switches to change from static to TE, many GA aircraft use
such switches to give an alternative static source for the instruments
in case the primary static ports become blocked. Maybe one of the
aircraft supply houses would have them.
Cheers, John G.

Clippard Industries in Cincinnati Ohio makes several types of Pneumatic
switches.....
these were commonly used years ago back when sailplane pilots used to have
to make their own and a few variometer manufacturers like Richard Ball made
alternative Pneumatic inputs for Netto's and Speed to Fly variometers from
normal TE variometers
tim

"Paul Remde" wrote in message
news:f%Lod.141383$R05.121337@attbi_s53...
Hi,

I received a few very nice e-mails from reputable sources recommending the
use of a pneumatic switch to switch between TE and Static input for a
motorglider. That is good information. This newsgroup is fantastic!

It was suggested that the switch could be made to be automatic. That
sounds
great. It is my understanding that even very small leaks can cause large
inaccuracies in TE functionality - so we must be careful about that of
course. Does anyone have any recommendations for manual or automatic
pneumatic switches? It would be great to get feedback from someone who
has
done this already.

Thank you,

Paul Remde
Cumulus Soaring, Inc.
http://www.cumulus-soaring.com

"Paul Remde" wrote in message
news:NwKod.141170$R05.69144@attbi_s53...
Hi,

I have a question for motorglider owners. I sell variometers and TE
probes
but I'm still learning. A customer is building a Europa motorglider and
he
is wondering if he can mount a TE probe on the fin and connect it to the
variometer, or will the propwash cause problems. Is it necessary to use
some sort of pneumatic switch to switch between TE and static input for
the
variometer?

His pitot and static ports are on a boom that is mounted to the wing.

Thank you,

Paul Remde
Cumulus Soaring, Inc.
http://www.cumulus-soaring.com