Revisiting declining membership

Looking through all the posts from earlier this year, regarding the
sliding membership in our US soaring activities, along with all the
other trailing bad news, i.e. SSA building in need of big repairs,
there is no soaring operation in Hobbs, I'm curious about thoughts of
"what if the SSA became a division of the EAA, similar to the Vintage,
Classic, Warbird divisions of the EAA.

Two big airshow/conventions a year, EAA publishes all magazines, and a
lot of members at those fly-ins and airshows to ask the question "where
can I start". Plus lobbying power, and unlimited networking.
Just curious for thoughts.

Snoop,
I recall a few years ago there was a big brouhaha when the rank and file EAA
membership found out that the EAA was a privately owned corporation and the
directors were expected to toe the corporate line. That is not to say that
they don't deliver value for money to their "membership", but I doubt the
"membership" has much to say about the running of the corporate affairs.
Come to think of it there seem to be a few similarities. Things do seem to
have at least the appearance of change for the better.
Cheers!
"snoop" wrote in message
ups.com...
Looking through all the posts from earlier this year, regarding the
sliding membership in our US soaring activities, along with all the
other trailing bad news, i.e. SSA building in need of big repairs,
there is no soaring operation in Hobbs, I'm curious about thoughts of
"what if the SSA became a division of the EAA, similar to the Vintage,
Classic, Warbird divisions of the EAA.

Two big airshow/conventions a year, EAA publishes all magazines, and a
lot of members at those fly-ins and airshows to ask the question "where
can I start". Plus lobbying power, and unlimited networking.
Just curious for thoughts.

snoop wrote:
"what if the SSA became a division of the EAA, similar to the Vintage,
Classic, Warbird divisions of the EAA.

Just curious for
thoughts.========================================= =============

The National Association of Flight Instructors (NAFI)-a division of the
EAA with approximately the same number of members as the SSA-could
serve as an example. NAFI publishes its own magazine, has its own web
page, sells its own merchandise, sends out email blasts to its members
on a monthly basis, and generally promotes professional flight
instruction though achievement awards such as the Master Instructor
program. This is accomplished with a small staff located within the
infrastructure of the EAA in Wisconsin. Sound familiar?

NAFI runs on volunteers, as do many of our alphabet groups. Every year
a general call goes to the NAFI membership to help man the booth at
Oshkosh and Sun 'n Fun. In 2002, I was at Sun 'n Fun as a
volunteer for NAFI. We had about 20 members manning our booth, all
there to help, and to hopefully see the airshow. With such a large
group, all participants frequently took breaks.

During the day, I found the SSA table manned by Burt and Kathy Compton
who had apparently became the usuals for these events. Why doesn't
SSA have a similar system to request such a level of volunteering,
instead of relying on the regulars? Two people to man a booth for the
entirety of the event will ensure that no one ever volunteers.

SSA recently made a call for volunteers in many areas. In an area that
fit my particular expertise, I tried to volunteer but two months after
my initial contact-no response or action has occurred. The apparent
lack of interest is puzzling.

When I renewed my membership in SSA last year, I made a suggestion like
your's. Mr. Wright had just assumed his position and asked for
forbearance while he revitalized our organization. This past year has
shown many improvements, with many more remaining. Such a merger might
cure some of the problems that are directly related to a lack of
infrastructure. Hobbs is a terrific soaring site, but is it
appropriate for our membership? I think not.
Terry Claussen
SSA member since 1979

There are several issues with declining membership issues. I think that
the main one is the cost directly involved. Many say that soaring is
less expensive then flying power. Well, not really. Think about
it.Compare price of LS-8 at 65000 Euros to Cessna 172. You can rent a
Cessna 150 for $50.00/hour wet. How many airports permit gliders to
operate? Not very many. I am traveling every weekend 125 miles one way
just to get some flying time in a glider. That how is from my house to
the club hanger. At the same time I can go to local airport, as a
matter of fact we have 3 of them around, in a few minutes and rent that
damn Cessna or Piper or whatever else is available. You have mentioned
EAA. Did you guys noticed that those guys are sticking together, they
do things together, they support each other, they don't bash each other
because they fly something different. How many of you read postings
about the PW-5...we are divided into their lovers and haters. How about
guys flying motorized sailplanes? They are trying very hard to convince
everybody that that is the way to go. Then some other people will
accuse them of not being skilled enough to fly pure sailplane. Then we
have those who are concerned about the looks and span and the argument
goes on. Have you seen how occasional passengers that every so often
come to the glider port for a ride, react to some of the glider pilots
comments and statements? This is the group of people that we need to
recruit, that is the group of people we need to concentrate on in order
to produce new pilots. So what if they are old or young. The EAA guys
will buy some sort of a kit, such as RV or Lancair and they enjoy
themselves.
Those guys don't blame everything on EAA just like we do with SSA. If
there is a problem they attack it.
These are just some of my thoughts but the issue is much deeper.

At 20:30 31 December 2004,
wrote:
There are several issues with declining membership
issues. I think that
the main one is the cost directly involved. Many say
that soaring is
less expensive then flying power. Well, not really.
Think about
it.Compare price of LS-8 at 65000 Euros to Cessna 172.
You can rent a
Cessna 150 for $50.00/hour wet. How many airports permit
gliders to
operate? Not very many. I am traveling every weekend
125 miles one way
just to get some flying time in a glider. That how
is from my house to
the club hanger. At the same time I can go to local
airport, as a
matter of fact we have 3 of them around, in a few minutes
and rent that
damn Cessna or Piper or whatever else is available.
You have mentioned
EAA. Did you guys noticed that those guys are sticking
together, they
do things together, they support each other, they don't
bash each other
because they fly something different. How many of you
read postings
about the PW-5...we are divided into their lovers and
haters. How about
guys flying motorized sailplanes? They are trying very
hard to convince
everybody that that is the way to go. Then some other
people will
accuse them of not being skilled enough to fly pure
sailplane. Then we
have those who are concerned about the looks and span
and the argument
goes on. Have you seen how occasional passengers that
every so often
come to the glider port for a ride, react to some of
the glider pilots
comments and statements? This is the group of people
that we need to
recruit, that is the group of people we need to concentrate
on in order
to produce new pilots. So what if they are old or young.
The EAA guys
will buy some sort of a kit, such as RV or Lancair
and they enjoy
themselves.
Those guys don't blame everything on EAA just like
we do with SSA. If
there is a problem they attack it.
These are just some of my thoughts but the issue is
much deeper.

Several good points made. I am a member of EAA.

But did you know that there was a strong movement afoot
three or four years ago for members to resign and start
another group. The feeling was that it no longer really
supported builders and had become primarily a place
for warbirds and exotica. The strong criticism centered
on the private corporation aspect and the fact that
the volunteers had to pay to volunteer. They have
to rent their camping space and buy their tickets (reduced
price) and work the show -- and they get only token
responses of appreciation. The membership gets to
vote on a few things, but the donations that go to
support building the aircraft collection actually support
aircraft for the private stockholders to fly. It is
the sweetest deal I ever heard of, with all due respect
to the hardwork they put into it to make it a success.

I think they would gobble us up.

I do not believe that very many of us feel well served by having the SSA
office in Hobbs, but in Wisconson, among all the political hogwash that goes
on there. Give me a break. I have belonged to EAA much longer that SSA, and
I would drop EAA in a heartbeat, but never SSA. The feeling of getting a
true direct vote for SSA directors, and to have some influence if one so
desires is great. Take a good look at EAA structures, if you do not live
close to Oshkosh, or have a famous name........you are a NOBODY and very
likely to stay that way!!! so if you want to move Hobbs, then why not think
of a real and viable soaring site. Harris Hill comes to mind very
quickly!!!!!!

"Terry" wrote in message
ups.com...

snoop wrote:
"what if the SSA became a division of the EAA, similar to the Vintage,
Classic, Warbird divisions of the EAA.

Just curious for
thoughts.========================================= =============

The National Association of Flight Instructors (NAFI)-a division of the
EAA with approximately the same number of members as the SSA-could
serve as an example. NAFI publishes its own magazine, has its own web
page, sells its own merchandise, sends out email blasts to its members
on a monthly basis, and generally promotes professional flight
instruction though achievement awards such as the Master Instructor
program. This is accomplished with a small staff located within the
infrastructure of the EAA in Wisconsin. Sound familiar?

NAFI runs on volunteers, as do many of our alphabet groups. Every year
a general call goes to the NAFI membership to help man the booth at
Oshkosh and Sun 'n Fun. In 2002, I was at Sun 'n Fun as a
volunteer for NAFI. We had about 20 members manning our booth, all
there to help, and to hopefully see the airshow. With such a large
group, all participants frequently took breaks.

During the day, I found the SSA table manned by Burt and Kathy Compton
who had apparently became the usuals for these events. Why doesn't
SSA have a similar system to request such a level of volunteering,
instead of relying on the regulars? Two people to man a booth for the
entirety of the event will ensure that no one ever volunteers.

SSA recently made a call for volunteers in many areas. In an area that
fit my particular expertise, I tried to volunteer but two months after
my initial contact-no response or action has occurred. The apparent
lack of interest is puzzling.

When I renewed my membership in SSA last year, I made a suggestion like
your's. Mr. Wright had just assumed his position and asked for
forbearance while he revitalized our organization. This past year has
shown many improvements, with many more remaining. Such a merger might
cure some of the problems that are directly related to a lack of
infrastructure. Hobbs is a terrific soaring site, but is it
appropriate for our membership? I think not.
Terry Claussen
SSA member since 1979

Many thanks for the remarks. Just what I was hoping for, and would
still like to hear from others.

In the meantime I have visited with current EAA members about their
organization, and yes they, like us, have their gremlins within, but
they are very interested in our sport. As always, some asked if we
really like flying a lawn chair with a sheet over it. sigh! Actually,
they asked a lot of great questions. Questions, that we as soaring
individuals would never bother asking each other at our bi-annual
convention, which is pretty much attended by soaring types.

All that I talked with though, spoke highly of the quality of
networking, and the exchange of information that takes place between
all EAA affilliates. Yes there are cases of the Warbirds looking down
their noses at the lawn chair flying guys, but that's normal in any
organization. Look at all of our "glass vs anything less" talk in this
forumn.

With regard to moving our headquarters. Phoenix, Moriarty, Dallas,
Harris Hill, you bet, anywhere there is airline travel close by, and I
don't mean two hours away in Lubbock. Does anyone have visitor
statistics for SSA members visiting SSA in Hobbs, on an annual basis?

Keep in mind that what we're talking about here isn't dismantling the
SSA, but growing it. Every program would still be available, and still
under our guidance.

I'm not a member of the EAA, nor am I a member of any comittee with the
intention of harm. This is strictly on the positive. My family, in
particular, my son, has greatly benefitted from the generosity of many
members of the SSA, and it's programs, and I would like to see this
continue. So when I continue to read and hear about the failing of our
sport, I would like to generate interest in a solution.

Many thanks!

snoop wrote:
Looking through all the posts from earlier this year, regarding the
sliding membership in our US soaring activities, along with all the
other trailing bad news, i.e. SSA building in need of big repairs,
there is no soaring operation in Hobbs, I'm curious about thoughts of
"what if the SSA became a division of the EAA, similar to the Vintage,
Classic, Warbird divisions of the EAA.

Two big airshow/conventions a year, EAA publishes all magazines, and a
lot of members at those fly-ins and airshows to ask the question "where
can I start". Plus lobbying power, and unlimited networking.
Just curious for thoughts.

I attend Airventure almost every year, and it amazes me the almost total
lack of soaring aircraft there. This is the biggest airshow on the
planet (maybe) and there are only a few gliders and motor gliders
sitting around. It's obviously not a place to go soaring, so I
understand that. But maybe an outlying field somewhere?

I posted this before, but getting approval to rig up a winch tow and
toss up gliders over Wittman before the gas burners are allowed to start
up and make their noise (8:00 AM) and take a circuit over the camping
area would be a HUGE thing. Folks heading off the brush their teeth,
hearing the whisper of an 18 meter glider float by. You could offer free
rides. You'd have a line from here to kingdom come, for sure.

You will never get a more dense pack of future soaring enthusiasts than
at Airventure. Take advantage of it!

As a NAFI member, I've been happy with their services, but
I'm a member there for completely different reasons.
NAFI is about professionalism, and making a higher standard.

I think SSA needs to go the exact opposite way. Make
soaring seem less professional, and less difficult
to meet the standards.

I'm a huge fan of including hang gliding articles in
Soaring magazine. And maybe an ultralight or two.
I absolutely love the cross-polenization. I'm personally
recruiting some UL guys over to gliding for cross-training.

I love these guys. They are fun, adventurous,
and maybe a little crazy. And they are aging, and looking
for some sports which are a little less "out there."
So soaring is looking pretty attractive to some of them.

I think soaring will appeal to folks in other
airsports best, and have focussed my efforts on those
who are already in some other airsport. Nothing wrong
with true primary training, mind you, but it is for
me much harder to market to "interested novices"
compared to those who are already some form of pilot.

And the "interested novices" that I see in this sport are
here through referral. Not ads or websites exclusively
(although these help).

So I'd love to see HG and Soaring merge. I think this
would be much better than EAA or AOPA or whatever.
I don't think soaring needs more formality, I think it
needs the opposite, a less stuffy image...

In article . com,
Terry wrote:

snoop wrote:
"what if the SSA became a division of the EAA, similar to the Vintage,
Classic, Warbird divisions of the EAA.

Just curious for
thoughts.======================================== ==============

The National Association of Flight Instructors (NAFI)-a division of the
EAA with approximately the same number of members as the SSA-could
serve as an example. NAFI publishes its own magazine, has its own web
page, sells its own merchandise, sends out email blasts to its members
on a monthly basis, and generally promotes professional flight
instruction though achievement awards such as the Master Instructor
program. This is accomplished with a small staff located within the
infrastructure of the EAA in Wisconsin. Sound familiar?
--

------------+
Mark J. Boyd

Some of this is the "urbanization" of the USA. I'm
told there used to be several gliderports under where the
current San Francisco class B airspace exists.
They are now gone.

Airports have also lost some commonality, but to a much
lesser extent, mainly because they actually become more useful
as the cities grow.

So soaring has been slowly, creepingly driven away
by airspace issues, and rising cost of land near
population centers (which are the breeding grounds for pilots,
by the way).

The upside is that renting a 172 to go to the local
gliderport is actually not so tough. $200 split four
ways to get to the gliderport isn't too bad.

Can you say "planepool?"

:P

In article .com,
wrote:
There are several issues with declining membership issues. I think that
the main one is the cost directly involved. Many say that soaring is
less expensive then flying power. Well, not really. Think about
it.Compare price of LS-8 at 65000 Euros to Cessna 172. You can rent a
Cessna 150 for $50.00/hour wet. How many airports permit gliders to
operate? Not very many. I am traveling every weekend 125 miles one way
just to get some flying time in a glider. That how is from my house to
the club hanger. At the same time I can go to local airport, as a
matter of fact we have 3 of them around, in a few minutes and rent that
damn Cessna or Piper or whatever else is available.




--

------------+
Mark J. Boyd