More likely to ground loop?

Would a taildragger with clipped wings be more likely to ground loop
than if it had it's full span wings?

Kevin T

wrote:
Would a taildragger with clipped wings be more likely to ground loop
than if it had it's full span wings?

Kevin T


only depend on how many angels would fit on the top of the tail wheel

wrote:

Would a taildragger with clipped wings be more likely to ground loop
than if it had it's full span wings?

IMO, no.

George Patterson
He who would distinguish what is true from what is false must have an
adequate understanding of truth and falsehood.

The clipped wing may be very slightly more likely to ground loop,
because its shorter wings give it a smaller moment of inertia, so it
will take less torque to make it rotate.

Ground loop? Can't say for sure but I think it would be more likely to lift
a wing in a gust as there's more wing area, therefore more lift for a given
airspeed. A lot depends on the airplane's design and the airfoil section,
though. Based on personal experience, the Cub is more likely to lift a wing
than a Taylorcraft because of the airfoil characteristics (I believe).

Why the question, by the way? I wouldn't let perceived groundloop threats
be a deciding factor in which airplanes to fly or buy.

Shawn
wrote in message
ups.com...
The clipped wing may be very slightly more likely to ground loop,
because its shorter wings give it a smaller moment of inertia, so it
will take less torque to make it rotate.

wrote in message
ups.com...
Would a taildragger with clipped wings be more likely to ground loop
than if it had it's full span wings?

Kevin T

Depending on the airplane, it could be a problem. The real physics in
the groundloop equation has to be considered as a whole picture, not
just the length of the wing, although changing the mass ratio between
the wing and fuselage can indeed effect this situation.
The main gear and the tailwheel form a triangle that can be stable or
unstable in specific conditions depending on how the sides of this
triangle balance together. Then you have to add the aerodynamics
involved in the wing itself and how that influences the triangle in
different situations.
It's a complicated thing really. The main point of it is that what
effects ground loop is usually not a single factor data point. As is the
case in most of aircraft design issues, it's a combination of factors
and how these factors interplay with each other.
Dudley Henriques
International Fighter Pilots Fellowship
Commercial Pilot/CFI Retired
for private email; make necessary changes between ( )
dhenriques(at)(delete all this)earthlink(dot)net

Any taildragger, driven by someone who has an inflated opinion
of his skills and an underestimation of the skills required, is more
likely to groundloop. It's not particularly difficult if the proper
training is given.
The biggest single physical characteristic of an airplane that
has bad groundlooping tendencies would be the main wheels too far
forward of the CG. A close second would be a short tail. Third might be
a narrow main track.

Dan

On 16 Feb 2005 18:11:24 -0800, wrote:

Would a taildragger with clipped wings be more likely to ground loop
than if it had it's full span wings?

Kevin T

I'm pretty sure it wouldnt.
the geometry of the main wheels is unchanged. the empennage length is
unchanged. the rudder/tailwheel setup is unchanged. the weight and cg
position is pretty well unchanged. engine and thrustline is unchanged
and tyre pressures would be unchanged.

the only real difference you'd notice is that the approach speed will
need to be slightly faster and the roundout slightly faster.
you probably wouldnt be that aware of a slightly increased ground run
on takeoff.

the drag curve would be shifted to the right and you would get into
the "back of the power curve" more noticeably if you flew the old
approach speeds.

in the air the inherent stability should be less and the aileron roll
a little crisper. stick sensitivity may make you fly with the arm on
the thigh to prevent overcontrol.

Stealth (wittman tailwind) Pilot

The shorter wings would decrease slightly the moment of
inertia about the vertical axis, making the airplane a bit quicker in
yaw. A groundloop might be easier to start, but would also be easier to
stop.

Stealth (wittman tailwind) Pilot

What's the Tailwind like for ground handling? I've always liked
that airplane and hope to own one someday, perhaps as a restoration
project. Steve Wittman designed some fantastic airplanes for his time,
and they're still excellent performers for their power.

Dan

wrote in message
ups.com...
The shorter wings would decrease slightly the moment of
inertia about the vertical axis, making the airplane a bit quicker in
yaw. A groundloop might be easier to start, but would also be easier to
stop.

Stealth (wittman tailwind) Pilot

What's the Tailwind like for ground handling? I've always liked
that airplane and hope to own one someday, perhaps as a restoration
project. Steve Wittman designed some fantastic airplanes for his time,
and they're still excellent performers for their power.

Dan

An aquaitence who owned one said it was a "mean little airplane". He didn't
use the word in a nice sense. He didn't have any complaints about the
Tailwind's in-flight performance, but really didn't like the approach speeds
and ground handling.

He kept it a few months, sold it, then bought an RV-3 which he liked (then
sold), and finally bought a Sonex, which he likes.

The thing I notice about the Tailwinds is the relatively poor visibility.