Pardon me, but this is the kind of bull**** that's killing GA

Please read this. This is what's killing GA and we ought to do something
about it.


http://www.cdapress.com/articles/200...ews/news04.prt

and this

http://www.news4jax.com/news/4269212/detail.html#



Please take it for what its worth -- a money grab. Even if on your worse
days you have a bone to pick with ATC, recognize that these lawsuit outcomes
are not truly about the truth or whose at fault; its about who has the deep
pockets. The ultimate question is: what's the PICs responsibility? These
outcomes blame ATC. If the pilot were to have been presented during his
written exam with hypothetical questions encompassing the same facts, what
do you think his answers would have been if the choices were either to blame
the PIC or to blame ATC?

"A.Coleman" wrote in message
m...

Please read this. This is what's killing GA and we ought to do something
about it.


http://www.cdapress.com/articles/200...ews/news04.prt

and this

http://www.news4jax.com/news/4269212/detail.html#



Please take it for what its worth -- a money grab. Even if on your worse
days you have a bone to pick with ATC, recognize that these lawsuit
outcomes are not truly about the truth or whose at fault; its about who
has the deep pockets. The ultimate question is: what's the PICs
responsibility? These outcomes blame ATC. If the pilot were to have been
presented during his written exam with hypothetical questions encompassing
the same facts, what do you think his answers would have been if the
choices were either to blame the PIC or to blame ATC?


It doesn't look like a money grab to me. There are many suits without merit
that win big bucks, but this doesn't appear to be one of them. The
controller made a fundamental error and two people were killed as a result.

But the NTSB report won't be admissible, right?

They'll have to argue the case de novo.

I believe that is correct.. NTSB reports are for safety reporting.. and not
admissible in a court of law.. or else no one would talk to the NTSB and
we'd never figure out what went wrong and how to correct it.

BT

"Mike Granby" wrote in message
ups.com...

But the NTSB report won't be admissible, right?

They'll have to argue the case de novo.

"A.Coleman" wrote in message
m...
Please read this. This is what's killing GA and we ought to do something
about it.


http://www.cdapress.com/articles/200...ews/news04.prt

and this

http://www.news4jax.com/news/4269212/detail.html#



Please take it for what its worth -- a money grab. Even if on your worse
days you have a bone to pick with ATC, recognize that these lawsuit
outcomes
are not truly about the truth or whose at fault; its about who has the
deep
pockets. The ultimate question is: what's the PICs responsibility? These
outcomes blame ATC.

Rightfully so. Note that neither of these suits assign all the blame to ATC,
but the behavior of the controllers in both cases was incompetent enough
that I have no problem with the award of some damages, particularly in the
first case. ATC regularly vectors IFR traffic below the route MEA, using
minimum vectoring altitudes that are not available to pilots. All those
alarms and things are there for a reason -- and the controllers chose to
ignore them. I would go so far as to suggest that the tower controllers
should have been charged with manslaughter.

You lose one of your children because of a drunk driver or someone's
mistake. Then tell me how you feel.
"A.Coleman" wrote in message
m...
Please read this. This is what's killing GA and we ought to do something
about it.


http://www.cdapress.com/articles/200...ews/news04.prt

and this

http://www.news4jax.com/news/4269212/detail.html#



Please take it for what its worth -- a money grab. Even if on your worse
days you have a bone to pick with ATC, recognize that these lawsuit
outcomes
are not truly about the truth or whose at fault; its about who has the
deep
pockets. The ultimate question is: what's the PICs responsibility? These
outcomes blame ATC. If the pilot were to have been presented during his
written exam with hypothetical questions encompassing the same facts, what
do you think his answers would have been if the choices were either to
blame
the PIC or to blame ATC?






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That is a poor example of the kindof bs that is "killing" GA. It
seems pretty clear to me that an ATC screw-up caused this one. ATC
incompetence would have to be way down at the bottom of the list
of things killing GA... if it would even be on the list.

A.Coleman wrote:
Please read this. This is what's killing GA and we ought to do something
about it.


http://www.cdapress.com/articles/200...ews/news04.prt

I've read the accident reports on this one. The controller screwed up
big on this. Yes you can take the philosophy that the controller is always
trying to kill you and question every instruction he gives you, but there's
no indication that doing that is inherently safer in the long run either.

Mike Granby wrote:
But the NTSB report won't be admissible, right?

They would argue it de novo anyhow. However the NTSB tells them
what to say pretty much.

The ATC screwup I recall was when they vectored the jump plane over
Lake Erie and all the skydivers drowned. I've never looked for that
NTSB report {It happened in the 60's} but maybe I will.

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