Interior Replacement Project - Day 8

Day 8 (Big Box Time)

Earlier than estimated, the carpet set arrived. Also, the screws,
finishing washers, glue, seat webbing, and extra carpet/material arrived
with it. First thing I noticed was THE SMELL! I thought one of the glue
cans came open. Nope. The carpet has a very strong solvent smell. Sure
hope that dissipates quickly. This is not the typical “new car smell”
that you might like. No, this is GLUE smell. I will report if it fades
quickly.

First impression was that the carpet was not too “substantial”. The pile
was rather short and the carpet did not have a lot of weight. Then,
thinking back to my automotive days, even “good” auto carpeting is not
that heavy so it can be easily molded to the curves of a car floor.
Thinking further, you really don’t want heavy carpet robbing you of
useful load. And, thick pile carpeting in a vehicle just holds dirt and
small stones and tends to be very hard to clean. How heavy can it get?
From my days building custom vans I estimate that the carpet in an
average 4 place single can easily swing +/- 15 lbs. depending on pile
height and density. So, I rationalized that “light” was in fact “good”
for this purpose. I also remembered that the carpet kit was South of
$300 and the least expensive part of this adventure. The carpet was more
than $100 less than the seat belts! So, I “managed my expectations”
accordingly. By contrast, the extra fabric and vinyl I ordered looked
pretty nice. I already am convinced that the Airtex “premium materials”
are the way to go, even at the 25% premium price. I noticed several
planes with the “base” materials and the interior did not look as nice
to me as I would have liked. Remember that the premium material only
resides on the seat face and the middle of the sidewalls. It might
appear to be a large premium to pay for only part of the interior, but
it looks like it is worth it when examining the material swatch. I will
report whether the finished seat covers and walls seem to justify the
increased price.

I dragged a few pieces of carpet out to the plane to see what the color
would look like and check the fit. I came to really believe the notation
stapled to several pieces that said, “some cutting and fitting may be
necessary”. You got that right! Several pieces were easily 1”+ oversize
all around. Better that than too small I guess. I may get an electric
shear to see if it will cut this stuff. I learned that an electric shear
is WAY less tiring for fitting lightweight carpet. It is so easy you are
encouraged to make all the “little” adjustments that can make the
difference between an O.K. job and a great one. I will report on whether
the Airtex carpet cuts easily with one when I try it out.

Looking around, I noticed that the carpet kit had a couple of panels I
forgot about, namely the inner kick panels on the front seat wells
leading up to the throttle quadrant. My plane actually has the original
1974 faded loop shag still glued on. YECH! Cannot wait to tear that
stuff off and get the replacement stuff on.

I also noticed that the snaps that hold the carpet in place in the
Cherokee were all shiny new on the carpet itself, but the mates that are
screwed to the plane leave a lot to be desired. Some of them have been
smashed and don’t hold the carpet any more. So, I added “snaps” to the
hardware store list. Wonder if I can get stainless?

I did order the “hat shelf pad”. It was nicely bound all the way around.
When I got to the plane, I noticed a small problem. My plane had factory
air-conditioning at one time. That means that there is a square duct
running from the ceiling down to the hat shelf itself. The Airtex pad
did not have a cutout for this because “normal” (non-A/C) planes don’t
have this vent. I may ask the Airtex folks to send me a few feet of
carpet edge binding so the cutout won’t look odd. Details, details.

So, now I have to make the decision if I should pull the seats out and
install the carpet now without having the new side panels handy to check
the fit. The danger is, if a side wall is too short and I just run the
carpet to the sidewall and cut it flush, there may be a gap at the
bottom of the sidewall that could have easily been avoided if I had run
the carpet up the wall an inch. I will call the Airtex folks to get
their advice. If I recall, they reported that the sidewalls were shipped
a little long. Regardless, I will ask if I should run any extra carpet
up the wall or cut it off flush. In my experience, if you double up
where you do not need to, you can cause all sorts of fit problems and
make locating the screw holes a real challenge.

Another reservation I have about installing the carpet first is that it
tends to get dirty and/or stained while you cut and glue the sidewall
pieces. Since I also planned to remove and paint the plastic, there is
another opportunity to get the carpet dirty. The backside of the plastic
tends to collect a LOT of dirt. Last, I also planned to dye the
headliner, so putting the carpet in as the final project may be the way
to go to avoid dye stains. Time-wise, I may save 2 days by installing it
now, but the price may be too high. Again, I will consult the Airtex
folks to see if they have any thoughts.

So far, no unusual “surprises”. Got my fingers crossed that it stays
that way!

End of Day 8

__________________________________________________ _____________________________
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Mike what are you doing about the top of the glareshield ?
I am assuming that it will be in pretty worn condition with a few dead bugs
in the corners like most Cherokees :-)

--
Roy
N5804F - PA28-181 Piper Archer II


"Mike Spera" wrote in message
...
Day 8 (Big Box Time)

Earlier than estimated, the carpet set arrived. Also, the screws,
finishing washers, glue, seat webbing, and extra carpet/material arrived
with it. First thing I noticed was THE SMELL! I thought one of the glue
cans came open. Nope. The carpet has a very strong solvent smell. Sure
hope that dissipates quickly. This is not the typical “new car smell” that
you might like. No, this is GLUE smell. I will report if it fades quickly.

First impression was that the carpet was not too “substantial”. The pile
was rather short and the carpet did not have a lot of weight. Then,
thinking back to my automotive days, even “good” auto carpeting is not
that heavy so it can be easily molded to the curves of a car floor.
Thinking further, you really don’t want heavy carpet robbing you of useful
load. And, thick pile carpeting in a vehicle just holds dirt and small
stones and tends to be very hard to clean. How heavy can it get? From my
days building custom vans I estimate that the carpet in an average 4 place
single can easily swing +/- 15 lbs. depending on pile height and density.
So, I rationalized that “light” was in fact “good” for this purpose. I
also remembered that the carpet kit was South of $300 and the least
expensive part of this adventure. The carpet was more than $100 less than
the seat belts! So, I “managed my expectations” accordingly. By contrast,
the extra fabric and vinyl I ordered looked pretty nice. I already am
convinced that the Airtex “premium materials” are the way to go, even at
the 25% premium price. I noticed several planes with the “base” materials
and the interior did not look as nice to me as I would have liked.
Remember that the premium material only resides on the seat face and the
middle of the sidewalls. It might appear to be a large premium to pay for
only part of the interior, but it looks like it is worth it when examining
the material swatch. I will report whether the finished seat covers and
walls seem to justify the increased price.

I dragged a few pieces of carpet out to the plane to see what the color
would look like and check the fit. I came to really believe the notation
stapled to several pieces that said, “some cutting and fitting may be
necessary”. You got that right! Several pieces were easily 1”+ oversize
all around. Better that than too small I guess. I may get an electric
shear to see if it will cut this stuff. I learned that an electric shear
is WAY less tiring for fitting lightweight carpet. It is so easy you are
encouraged to make all the “little” adjustments that can make the
difference between an O.K. job and a great one. I will report on whether
the Airtex carpet cuts easily with one when I try it out.

Looking around, I noticed that the carpet kit had a couple of panels I
forgot about, namely the inner kick panels on the front seat wells leading
up to the throttle quadrant. My plane actually has the original 1974 faded
loop shag still glued on. YECH! Cannot wait to tear that stuff off and get
the replacement stuff on.

I also noticed that the snaps that hold the carpet in place in the
Cherokee were all shiny new on the carpet itself, but the mates that are
screwed to the plane leave a lot to be desired. Some of them have been
smashed and don’t hold the carpet any more. So, I added “snaps” to the
hardware store list. Wonder if I can get stainless?

I did order the “hat shelf pad”. It was nicely bound all the way around.
When I got to the plane, I noticed a small problem. My plane had factory
air-conditioning at one time. That means that there is a square duct
running from the ceiling down to the hat shelf itself. The Airtex pad did
not have a cutout for this because “normal” (non-A/C) planes don’t have
this vent. I may ask the Airtex folks to send me a few feet of carpet edge
binding so the cutout won’t look odd. Details, details.

So, now I have to make the decision if I should pull the seats out and
install the carpet now without having the new side panels handy to check
the fit. The danger is, if a side wall is too short and I just run the
carpet to the sidewall and cut it flush, there may be a gap at the bottom
of the sidewall that could have easily been avoided if I had run the
carpet up the wall an inch. I will call the Airtex folks to get their
advice. If I recall, they reported that the sidewalls were shipped a
little long. Regardless, I will ask if I should run any extra carpet up
the wall or cut it off flush. In my experience, if you double up where you
do not need to, you can cause all sorts of fit problems and make locating
the screw holes a real challenge.

Another reservation I have about installing the carpet first is that it
tends to get dirty and/or stained while you cut and glue the sidewall
pieces. Since I also planned to remove and paint the plastic, there is
another opportunity to get the carpet dirty. The backside of the plastic
tends to collect a LOT of dirt. Last, I also planned to dye the headliner,
so putting the carpet in as the final project may be the way to go to
avoid dye stains. Time-wise, I may save 2 days by installing it now, but
the price may be too high. Again, I will consult the Airtex folks to see
if they have any thoughts.

So far, no unusual “surprises”. Got my fingers crossed that it stays that
way!

End of Day 8

__________________________________________________ _____________________________
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Mike,
You can get stainless steel snaps from most marine suppliers.
Dave
68 7ECA

Mike Spera wrote:
Day 8 (Big Box Time)

Earlier than estimated, the carpet set arrived. Also, the screws,
finishing washers, glue, seat webbing, and extra carpet/material arrived
with it. First thing I noticed was THE SMELL! I thought one of the glue
cans came open. Nope. The carpet has a very strong solvent smell. Sure
hope that dissipates quickly. This is not the typical “new car smell”
that you might like. No, this is GLUE smell. I will report if it fades
quickly.

First impression was that the carpet was not too “substantial”. The pile
was rather short and the carpet did not have a lot of weight. Then,
thinking back to my automotive days, even “good” auto carpeting is not
that heavy so it can be easily molded to the curves of a car floor.
Thinking further, you really don’t want heavy carpet robbing you of
useful load. And, thick pile carpeting in a vehicle just holds dirt and
small stones and tends to be very hard to clean. How heavy can it get?
From my days building custom vans I estimate that the carpet in an
average 4 place single can easily swing +/- 15 lbs. depending on pile
height and density. So, I rationalized that “light” was in fact “good”
for this purpose. I also remembered that the carpet kit was South of
$300 and the least expensive part of this adventure. The carpet was more
than $100 less than the seat belts! So, I “managed my expectations”
accordingly. By contrast, the extra fabric and vinyl I ordered looked
pretty nice. I already am convinced that the Airtex “premium materials”
are the way to go, even at the 25% premium price. I noticed several
planes with the “base” materials and the interior did not look as nice
to me as I would have liked. Remember that the premium material only
resides on the seat face and the middle of the sidewalls. It might
appear to be a large premium to pay for only part of the interior, but
it looks like it is worth it when examining the material swatch. I will
report whether the finished seat covers and walls seem to justify the
increased price.

I dragged a few pieces of carpet out to the plane to see what the color
would look like and check the fit. I came to really believe the notation
stapled to several pieces that said, “some cutting and fitting may be
necessary”. You got that right! Several pieces were easily 1”+ oversize
all around. Better that than too small I guess. I may get an electric
shear to see if it will cut this stuff. I learned that an electric shear
is WAY less tiring for fitting lightweight carpet. It is so easy you are
encouraged to make all the “little” adjustments that can make the
difference between an O.K. job and a great one. I will report on whether
the Airtex carpet cuts easily with one when I try it out.

Looking around, I noticed that the carpet kit had a couple of panels I
forgot about, namely the inner kick panels on the front seat wells
leading up to the throttle quadrant. My plane actually has the original
1974 faded loop shag still glued on. YECH! Cannot wait to tear that
stuff off and get the replacement stuff on.

I also noticed that the snaps that hold the carpet in place in the
Cherokee were all shiny new on the carpet itself, but the mates that are
screwed to the plane leave a lot to be desired. Some of them have been
smashed and don’t hold the carpet any more. So, I added “snaps” to the
hardware store list. Wonder if I can get stainless?

I did order the “hat shelf pad”. It was nicely bound all the way around.
When I got to the plane, I noticed a small problem. My plane had factory
air-conditioning at one time. That means that there is a square duct
running from the ceiling down to the hat shelf itself. The Airtex pad
did not have a cutout for this because “normal” (non-A/C) planes don’t
have this vent. I may ask the Airtex folks to send me a few feet of
carpet edge binding so the cutout won’t look odd. Details, details.

So, now I have to make the decision if I should pull the seats out and
install the carpet now without having the new side panels handy to check
the fit. The danger is, if a side wall is too short and I just run the
carpet to the sidewall and cut it flush, there may be a gap at the
bottom of the sidewall that could have easily been avoided if I had run
the carpet up the wall an inch. I will call the Airtex folks to get
their advice. If I recall, they reported that the sidewalls were shipped
a little long. Regardless, I will ask if I should run any extra carpet
up the wall or cut it off flush. In my experience, if you double up
where you do not need to, you can cause all sorts of fit problems and
make locating the screw holes a real challenge.

Another reservation I have about installing the carpet first is that it
tends to get dirty and/or stained while you cut and glue the sidewall
pieces. Since I also planned to remove and paint the plastic, there is
another opportunity to get the carpet dirty. The backside of the plastic
tends to collect a LOT of dirt. Last, I also planned to dye the
headliner, so putting the carpet in as the final project may be the way
to go to avoid dye stains. Time-wise, I may save 2 days by installing it
now, but the price may be too high. Again, I will consult the Airtex
folks to see if they have any thoughts.

So far, no unusual “surprises”. Got my fingers crossed that it stays
that way!

End of Day 8

__________________________________________________ _____________________________

Posted Via Uncensored-News.Com - Accounts Starting At $6.95 -
http://www.uncensored-news.com
The Worlds Uncensored News Source

Mike,

Just saw your thread for the first time. I replaced the whole interior
of my PA28-140 last year using parts from Airtex, I'd be happy to
answer questions if I can.

If I were to do it all over again I'd probably do headliner, carpet,
then side panels. As it stands, I actually did carpet, panels,
headliner. Also, I haven't looked at your previous posts but it wasn't
clear if you want to fly while you're redoing the interior. I did but
I'd probably do it differently next time. I lost count of how many
times I took the seats out. Ideally, you should take out all the
seats, remove almost all the plastic trim, remove the hat shelf shell
(you'll need to move it anyway for the headliner, it's easier to just
take it out), remove all the interior, remove the old insulation,
cleanup the old glue and cardboard (as much as you care to), THEN start
installing the new stuff. But that's the ideal world. I was a real
interior warrior, I did the whole thing from my tiedown, started in
July (bad idea, very hot), flew several times during the process, and
finished in November.

Anyway, about the carpet...

When I ordered my Airtex carpet, they included an extra set of "screw
ends" for the snaps which I used to replace just about all of mine
(some were missing, some were just plain old). I didn't have to ask
for these, they just came with the carpet. If memory serves, they were
stapled to the back of one of the pieces. Also, make sure you save at
least one of the PMA stickers attached to the carpet for inclusion in
your logs. That's pretty anal but might as well dot the i's and cross
the t's.

Replacing the carpet was probably the hardest job, with the headliner
being a close second. The problem is cleaning up the crud underneath
the carpet. Getting the old carpet out was easy but I spent a good
week and two cans of "goof off" with a scraper removing old glue,
cardboard, etc. The second problem was replacing the carpet under the
back seats. The new carpet was much thicker than the old stuff so it
took some work to get the metal trim back on, not to mention getting
all the screws to line up properly. In some cases I had to replace
with larger screws because the previous screws had twisted out of the
wood underneath. This would have been easier if I had removed the wood
base completely, that's how I'd do it next time. A third problem was
that my original carpet had cardboard material underneath the
pilot/copilot pedals and directly underneath the seats. These were
completely shot, so I replaced them with light particle board.
Finally, the snaps at the front of the back seats did not properly line
up with some of the "screw ends". This was a complete mystery to me,
either Airtex goofed or the plane was unusual. Since most of the snaps
matched I just left the unmatched ones unsnapped.

Regarding side panels, Airtex did indeed cut mine long so that it was
not necessary to run carpet up the side walls. When all was said and
done, the panels fit quite snugly (hint: remove the metal trim at the
bottom of the windows when you do this part or you may go batty).

Best of luck,
mark

Roy Page wrote:

Mike what are you doing about the top of the glareshield ?
I am assuming that it will be in pretty worn condition with a few dead bugs
in the corners like most Cherokees :-)

I ordered a cover from Dashcovers of Sacremento. I was disappointed that
the cover did not go over the one spot I needed. Namely, the vinyl that
covers the top of the "lip" (closest to you). A crack has developed and
is getting worse.

Mike