liability insurance

Any ideas on liability insurance for older pilots that can't get glider
insurance.

I foolishly didn’t renew my policy with Costello a few years back, thought it might be time to hang it up. The next year I found out almost nobody would insure a pilot over 80 years old. Costello turned me down initially, but finally did reinsure me. I believe because they are SSA’s group insurers and didn’t want to take a chance on loosing the group?
JJ

I apologize if my reply sounds insensitive. It's a limitation of these forums. Every year in this country we have mystery crashes that don't add up. Our group insurance pays for too many senior moments. I've witnessed crashes and close calls with pilots who don't belong on a golf cart. Even if a pilot has the mental capacity to learn from mistakes and has good situational awareness, advanced age makes us more vulnerable to fatigue and incapacitation from things like heat, etc.
A good friend flew a tow plane through power lines a year ago, broke his back and died 8 months later. He was 80, retired airline and Airforce pilot. He was a great stick and never bent an airplane until the end. It was the end of a hot day and he was asked to do "just one more." I was asked to investigate the accident on behalf of the club. (Too much to go into), but while descending he had the airplane loaded up in a steep turn to come down faster. The combination of heat, g-load, recent heavy meal, and end of day tiredness caused him to experience tunel vision and the sensation of being a passenger as he flew the length of the 3000 foot runway with the flaps up. He started the go-around about 300 feet from the wires. This shouldn't be his legacy and doesn't have to be yours. The irony is about 20 years ago he was on the board of the club when they implemented the "Golden Eagles" program/policy. At the time pilots over 80 HAD to fly with another pilot. He even had to have "the talk" with his glider partner who at the time was over 80 and was becoming problematic. As the club/board experienced turn over the policy was removed from the rules and regs and became forgotten.
If you are fortunate enough to be able bodied in your 80's I'm envious. In my family we dont make it out of our 70's. I don't know when my last flight will be, but I regret not having "the talk" with my friend.
Before all 9000 SSA/AARP members chime in with anger and denial, I'll remind you that you can ignore reality, but you can't ignore the consequences of ignoring reality.

Our group insurance pays for too many senior moments.

A friend of mine had two senior moments.

The first was the last time he flew as a CFI. Glider landed short of the runway. No major damage or injury. Cessation of instruction did not go far enough.

The second was the last time that he flew as a tow pilot. Extensive damage to glider and towplane and surprisingly no injuries.

The insurance rates went up and due to other glider accidents in the region, there was/is a possibility of the policy being cancelled.

How can you say that your friend experienced tunnel vision unless he
said it over the radio?Â* I have many other problems with your statement
but I don't deny that some folks just aren't as sharp as they used to
be.Â* I think it's more related to condition than to age, however.

I hope to fly well into my 80s but then I'm fortunate to have had both
parents live well into their 90s.Â* But that doesn't mean I'll get there
nor does it mean that I won't live to be 100.Â* I only hope that, when
it's time for me to hang up my spurs, I'll have the good sense to do
so.Â* Failing that, I hope someone will have "the talk" with me.

That said, at the ripe young age of 72, I'm happily conducting Phase I
flight testing on a gyro plane that I built from a kit.Â* And what a hoot
it is!

On 7/2/2020 5:56 PM, wrote:
I apologize if my reply sounds insensitive. It's a limitation of these forums. Every year in this country we have mystery crashes that don't add up. Our group insurance pays for too many senior moments. I've witnessed crashes and close calls with pilots who don't belong on a golf cart. Even if a pilot has the mental capacity to learn from mistakes and has good situational awareness, advanced age makes us more vulnerable to fatigue and incapacitation from things like heat, etc.
A good friend flew a tow plane through power lines a year ago, broke his back and died 8 months later. He was 80, retired airline and Airforce pilot. He was a great stick and never bent an airplane until the end. It was the end of a hot day and he was asked to do "just one more." I was asked to investigate the accident on behalf of the club. (Too much to go into), but while descending he had the airplane loaded up in a steep turn to come down faster. The combination of heat, g-load, recent heavy meal, and end of day tiredness caused him to experience tunel vision and the sensation of being a passenger as he flew the length of the 3000 foot runway with the flaps up. He started the go-around about 300 feet from the wires. This shouldn't be his legacy and doesn't have to be yours. The irony is about 20 years ago he was on the board of the club when they implemented the "Golden Eagles" program/policy. At the time pilots over 80 HAD to fly with another pilot. He even had to have "the talk" with his glider partner who at the time was over 80 and was becoming problematic. As the club/board experienced turn over the policy was removed from the rules and regs and became forgotten.
If you are fortunate enough to be able bodied in your 80's I'm envious. In my family we dont make it out of our 70's. I don't know when my last flight will be, but I regret not having "the talk" with my friend.
Before all 9000 SSA/AARP members chime in with anger and denial, I'll remind you that you can ignore reality, but you can't ignore the consequences of ignoring reality.

--
Dan, 5J

How can I say that he had tunnel vision if he didn't say it over the radio?"
-He told me while I was visiting him at the rehabilitation center."
"I have many problems with your statement."
- Take your time and sound out the big words. It's important that we take care of our most senior members and help them transition from flying when it's no longer safe for them to fly.
Take care.

On Friday, July 3, 2020 at 6:22:43 AM UTC-5, wrote:
How can I say that he had tunnel vision if he didn't say it over the radio?"
-He told me while I was visiting him at the rehabilitation center."
"I have many problems with your statement."
- Take your time and sound out the big words. It's important that we take care of our most senior members and help them transition from flying when it's no longer safe for them to fly.
Take care.

As I get older, I find I have trouble with memory and understanding what I read.
Often I am given to presenting My opinion with out really understanding to conversation or statements of others. Usually it's because of some hearing loss.
But I had to reread "died 8 months later" to grasp the rest of the original post meaning.
Thanks for sharing dtarm,
Scott

On 7/2/20 7:22 AM, wrote:
I foolishly didn’t renew my policy with Costello a few years back, thought it might be time to hang it up. The next year I found out almost nobody would insure a pilot over 80 years old. Costello turned me down initially, but finally did reinsure me. I believe because they are SSA’s group insurers and didn’t want to take a chance on loosing the group?
JJ


When I got into motorgliders a while back, I was told by Costello that
they wouldn't have provided coverage if I was over 60 when i started.
Wasn't an issue for me, but was surprised that they would add that
restriction to someone who was a very long term customer with a good
claims history.

With the newfound popularity of motorgliders, wonder how many others are
going to get surprised like that? I haven't checked to see if that's
still their policy.

-Dave

On Thursday, July 2, 2020 at 8:00:04 AM UTC-5, Morris Carter wrote:
Any ideas on liability insurance for older pilots that can't get glider
insurance.

Ahem. Can anyone answer Morris's question?

Fly dual.
Buy a twoseater.

I can't fault the underwriter's choice. The losses dont lie.
I've done my own review of enough accidents for Convention talks to thoroughly agree with them.


Unfortunately, I've met a few who wouldn't accept my recommendation. They went to 'adjacent' gliderports and killed either themselves or a sail plane by continuing PIC operations. I had called both adjacent places to issue a warning. Didn't change the result.

I had several septa/octogenarian customers who could have told you, I Can ride in silence. That just isn't the usual request.

Somebody slap me and stand me down (with love) when they see me close to that line. It's coming for me, too.

CindyB