logging (PIC) time

Here's a variation on something that's been beaten to death:
Situation - pilot 1's BFR ran out 2 months ago. Friend (Pilot 2)
comes to visit and wants to go flying. It's Pilot 1's airplane (high
wing) and he doesn't feel comfortable letting (low winger) Pilot 2 fly
it so he does. Pilot 2 is "PIC" but Pilot 1 is sole manipulator of
the controls. Who and how is time logged?

jb

"Jack Brown" wrote in message
...
Here's a variation on something that's been beaten to death:
Situation - pilot 1's BFR ran out 2 months ago. Friend (Pilot 2)
comes to visit and wants to go flying. It's Pilot 1's airplane (high
wing) and he doesn't feel comfortable letting (low winger) Pilot 2 fly
it so he does. Pilot 2 is "PIC" but Pilot 1 is sole manipulator of
the controls. Who and how is time logged?

Not that this is an opinion on the legalities, but IMHO, Pilot 1 is, at
best, abusing the regulations. If he does not feel comfortable letting
Pilot 2 fly the airplane, he has no business allowing (asking? requiring?)
Pilot 2 to act as pilot in command.

Which is not to say that Pilot 2 must fly the airplane. Just that Pilot 1
should only be bringing a pilot to act as PIC one that he feels is competent
to act as PIC.

As far as the actual logging goes, only Pilot 1 may log the flight, assuming
Pilot 2 is not an instructor. For a run-of-the-mill Private Pilot to log
the time while acting as PIC but not manipulating the controls, there would
need to be some requirement for two pilots, and there is not in this case.

Pete

Jack Brown wrote:

Who and how is time logged?

I wouldn't log it at all. Unless he's a CFI providing instruction, pilot #2
can't log the time. Pilot #1 can log the time, but it could get sticky if for
any reason the FAA wants to see his logbook at a later date. If pilot #1 decides
to log it, he should have pilot #2 add a note to the logbook IMO.

George Patterson
Give a person a fish and you feed him for a day; teach a person to
use the Internet and he won't bother you for weeks.

"Peter Duniho" wrote in message
...
"Jack Brown" wrote in message
...
Here's a variation on something that's been beaten to death:
Situation - pilot 1's BFR ran out 2 months ago. Friend (Pilot 2)
comes to visit and wants to go flying. It's Pilot 1's airplane (high
wing) and he doesn't feel comfortable letting (low winger) Pilot 2 fly
it so he does. Pilot 2 is "PIC" but Pilot 1 is sole manipulator of
the controls. Who and how is time logged?

As far as the actual logging goes, only Pilot 1 may log the flight,
assuming Pilot 2 is not an instructor. For a run-of-the-mill Private
Pilot to log the time while acting as PIC but not manipulating the
controls, there would need to be some requirement for two pilots, and
there is not in this case.

I agree with Peter that pilot 1 shouldn't ask pilot 2 to be PIC if #1
doesn't trust #2 to fly. Can #1 log this at all since he's not current or
just log it as non-PIC? Personally, I wouldn't log the flight for either
pilot 1 or 2.

Does a flight have to be logged by a pilot?

N93332 wrote:

Can #1 log this at all since he's not current or
just log it as non-PIC?

Pilot #1 can log it. I agree that I would not do so.

Does a flight have to be logged by a pilot?

No.

George Patterson
Give a person a fish and you feed him for a day; teach a person to
use the Internet and he won't bother you for weeks.

"George Patterson" wrote in message
news:9OpYe.7576$N35.4708@trndny09...
Can #1 log this at all since he's not current or just log it as non-PIC?

Pilot #1 can log it. I agree that I would not do so.

Why wouldn't you?

Or are you simply agreeing that Pilot 2 should be qualified to fly the
airplane?

Pete

Jack wrote:
Here's a variation on something that's been beaten to death:
Situation - pilot 1's BFR ran out 2 months ago. Friend (Pilot 2)
comes to visit and wants to go flying. It's Pilot 1's airplane (high
wing) and he doesn't feel comfortable letting (low winger) Pilot 2 fly
it so he does. Pilot 2 is "PIC" but Pilot 1 is sole manipulator of
the controls. Who and how is time logged?

Pilot 1 logs all the time, Pilot 2 logs nothing - this assumes that it is
all VFR, no hoodwork, that Pilot 2 has all the endorsements etc to be PIC,
and that Pilot 1 is rated in the aircraft.

Hilton

Jack Brown wrote:
Here's a variation on something that's been beaten to death:
Situation - pilot 1's BFR ran out 2 months ago. Friend (Pilot 2)
comes to visit and wants to go flying. It's Pilot 1's airplane (high
wing) and he doesn't feel comfortable letting (low winger) Pilot 2 fly
it so he does. Pilot 2 is "PIC" but Pilot 1 is sole manipulator of
the controls. Who and how is time logged?

jb

Pilot 1 logs PIC as sole manipulator of the controls. Pilot 2 logs PIC
as a required crewmember acting as PIC. Pilot 2 could not log PIC if
pilot 1 was current because then pilot 2 would not be a required
crewmember. There is nothing in the regs that requires you to be
current in order to log PIC.

I agree with Peter Duniho that you should not ask a pilot you do not
trust to be PIC.

No one is required to log time if they do not wish -- some pilots do
not log any time at all; just keep the bare minimum records to ensure
that they are current.

"cjcampbell" wrote

Pilot 1 logs PIC as sole manipulator of the controls. Pilot 2 logs PIC
as a required crewmember acting as PIC. Pilot 2 could not log PIC if
pilot 1 was current because then pilot 2 would not be a required
crewmember.

BS! CJ....The certification of the a/c does not require two pilots
and the rules under which it is operated do not require two pilots.
Pilot 2 logs NOTHING.

Bob Moore

Bob Moore wrote:
"cjcampbell" wrote

Pilot 1 logs PIC as sole manipulator of the controls. Pilot 2 logs PIC
as a required crewmember acting as PIC. Pilot 2 could not log PIC if
pilot 1 was current because then pilot 2 would not be a required
crewmember.

BS! CJ....The certification of the a/c does not require two pilots
and the rules under which it is operated do not require two pilots.
Pilot 2 logs NOTHING.


Since Pilot #1 isn't current, isn't this analogous to letting one of the
passengers handle the controls? Pilot #2 would be the only one current and
therefore MUST be the PIC. Pilot #1 is effectively the passenger. If he wants
to be more, he needs to get his BFR and / or medical current.

If he has an accident, you can be sure his insurance company will use his lack
of currency as an excuse to avoid having to pay.



--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN

VE