Jim Weir: Moving map GPS

Jim, I like some of the PDA based nav software (TeleType, Control Vision),
but can't live with the tiny little screens on a PDA. And a nice little
subnotebook computer--even used--is outrageously expensive.

J.C. Whitney sells a Pyramid 7" TFT/LCD monitor for DVD or Videocassette
players (System: NTSC. Video input: composition video signal.) $150.
Will this kind of monitor work with a cheap laptop computer?

Thanks.

That is outside my field of expertise. Any bit twiddlers in here care to
respond?

Jim


"John S" wrote in message
k.net...
Jim, I like some of the PDA based nav software (TeleType, Control Vision),
but can't live with the tiny little screens on a PDA. And a nice little
subnotebook computer--even used--is outrageously expensive.

J.C. Whitney sells a Pyramid 7" TFT/LCD monitor for DVD or Videocassette
players (System: NTSC. Video input: composition video signal.) $150.
Will this kind of monitor work with a cheap laptop computer?

Thanks.

RST Engineering wrote:
"John S" wrote...

Jim, I like some of the PDA based nav software (TeleType, Control Vision),
but can't live with the tiny little screens on a PDA. And a nice little
subnotebook computer--even used--is outrageously expensive.

J.C. Whitney sells a Pyramid 7" TFT/LCD monitor for DVD or Videocassette
players (System: NTSC. Video input: composition video signal.) $150.
Will this kind of monitor work with a cheap laptop computer?

That is outside my field of expertise. Any bit twiddlers in here
care to respond?

Dual output laptops (notebooks) use SVGA/SVideo, so you'd have to
convert SVideo or SVGA to NTSC composite to be compatible. The dual
output allows you to have basically 2 desktops, an extension of your
current desktop or mirror the desktop to both displays...

However, be careful of RFI noise that some LCD's create in the aviation
band.


Darrel Toepfer wrote:
RST Engineering wrote:

"John S" wrote...

Jim, I like some of the PDA based nav software (TeleType, Control
Vision),
but can't live with the tiny little screens on a PDA. And a nice little
subnotebook computer--even used--is outrageously expensive.

J.C. Whitney sells a Pyramid 7" TFT/LCD monitor for DVD or Videocassette
players (System: NTSC. Video input: composition video signal.) $150.
Will this kind of monitor work with a cheap laptop computer?


That is outside my field of expertise. Any bit twiddlers in here
care to respond?

Dual output laptops (notebooks) use SVGA/SVideo, so you'd have to
convert SVideo or SVGA to NTSC composite to be compatible. The dual
output allows you to have basically 2 desktops, an extension of your
current desktop or mirror the desktop to both displays...

Darrel Toepfer wrote:
RST Engineering wrote:

"John S" wrote...

Jim, I like some of the PDA based nav software (TeleType, Control
Vision),
but can't live with the tiny little screens on a PDA. And a nice little
subnotebook computer--even used--is outrageously expensive.

J.C. Whitney sells a Pyramid 7" TFT/LCD monitor for DVD or Videocassette
players (System: NTSC. Video input: composition video signal.) $150.
Will this kind of monitor work with a cheap laptop computer?


That is outside my field of expertise. Any bit twiddlers in here
care to respond?

Dual output laptops (notebooks) use SVGA/SVideo, so you'd have to
convert SVideo or SVGA to NTSC composite to be compatible. The dual
output allows you to have basically 2 desktops, an extension of your
current desktop or mirror the desktop to both displays...

I think there are some laptops around with composite video output, a
couple years ago we had some P-3 Dells at work with it I'm sure.

Composite is the one with a single yellow connector, right? (The
same type of connectors colored white and red are optional left and
right stereo sound.) My desktop computer has all 3 (VGA, S-Video,
and composite) inputs and outputs. I know, the original question is
for laptops.

Since a key part of the question is "cheap," it might take some
shopping around. I think there are inexpensive S-video to composite
adapters made too.

Jim Carriere wrote:

Composite is the one with a single yellow connector, right? (The same
type of connectors colored white and red are optional left and right
stereo sound.) My desktop computer has all 3 (VGA, S-Video, and
composite) inputs and outputs. I know, the original question is for
laptops.

CGA was easy to port to NTSC and RGB. VGA/SVGA took more hardware...

Most everything (cheap) is now Svideo only. To get the dual desktops,
does take a special videocard (chipset)...

On Wed, 02 Feb 2005 15:07:52 GMT, "John S"
wrote:

Jim, I like some of the PDA based nav software (TeleType, Control Vision),
but can't live with the tiny little screens on a PDA. And a nice little
subnotebook computer--even used--is outrageously expensive.

J.C. Whitney sells a Pyramid 7" TFT/LCD monitor for DVD or Videocassette
players (System: NTSC. Video input: composition video signal.) $150.
Will this kind of monitor work with a cheap laptop computer?

You will need an SVGA to NTSC converter to solve this problem. I am
not sure of the cost of commercial solutions, nor the chipsets to roll
your own. There may be issues with losing portions of the screen.
Ie, you may lose the bottom and right portions of the screen in this
setup.

Before you jump into building this LCD + laptop setup, I relate my
story as I went through the same hoops you are trying to get through.

Background: I run moving map software as a secondary navigational
tool in my Cherokee 180. The computing platform has always been a
Windows based PC.

I started off using a laptop in the cockpit, and got my first
realization of how much the cables are a pain in the cockpit. Worse,
the display is dim, washed out by the smallest amount of daylight. It
also did not have a contrast/brightness control, which made it
overwhelming at night. As well, the only place to put it in a single
is on the passenger seat. Fine if you are solo. Bad if you have
passengers.

So I moved the laptop to the backseat and bought a touchscreen VGA
monitor with approx 8" diagonal viewing area. This unit was about
$300 used on eBay. Again, brightness was my enemy. You don't realize
how much of a greenhouse the aircraft cabin is until you try do some
computing up there... It takes a LOT of nits to give a good display
in the daylight. Also, this setup brought to light another issue.
What do you do when the touchscreen isn't enough. Ie, when the
inevitable Ctrl-Alt-Del comes along or a full system reboot. Turning
on the autopilot and reaching into the backseat did not seem like a
safe solution, so eventually I abandoned it completely.

I ended up purchasing a Fujitsu ST4121 tablet PC. This tablet PC has
a transflective display, which allows sunlight to pass through the
LCD, hit the reflector behind the display, and then act as a backlight
for the LCD. The end result, it is sunlight readable. The colors wash
out a bit, ie, the particular shades of colors blend together, but
the base colors are distinguishable. You would not mistake red for
blue for green for black... The PC is NOT touchscreen, it has a
stylus as input, but my moving map software only rarely requires
keyboard input, so that is not as big an issue for me as perhaps
others...

Anyway, I'm really happy with the ST4121, and I would encourage anyone
else to give it a go. The ST4121 is also a very capable PC (933MHz +
512MB + 60G HDD), so I use it outside of the plane as well. If you
want to have a look at my setup and are in the Chicago area, I'm sure
we can arrange for a breakfast at Morris, Clow, or elsewhere.

-Nathan

It is all the rage among the geeky crowd to build tiny PCs to put
under the seat of your car for GPS navigation, music, etc. You can
buy them off the shelf, designed to run on 12vdc. For example:

www.mini-box.com
www.mini-itx.com
www.logicsupply.com

Some of them even have composite video outputs. Or you could use a
cheap VGA-to-composite video converter. I have one that I use for
presentations at venues that have only video screens. Cost about
$50 and draws power from the USB port of my laptop. But you definitely
lose some resolution.

EarthLCD (www.earthlcd.com) sells a 7.8" LCD screen with VGA input,
but the resolution is only 640x480, and contrast is only 45:1.

A lot of the mini-itx form factor PC motherboards can drive an LCD
screen directly, but I have not had much luck finding bare color LCD
screens in the 5-7" range, nor details on how to hook them up to
a mini-itx motherboard.


Happy hacking,

Ross Oliver

"Nathan Young" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 02 Feb 2005 15:07:52 GMT, "John S"
wrote:
You will need an SVGA to NTSC converter to solve this problem. I am
not sure of the cost of commercial solutions, nor the chipsets to roll
your own. There may be issues with losing portions of the screen.
Ie, you may lose the bottom and right portions of the screen in this
setup.

In my experience with these converters, you will also lose significant
resolution. In my case, it was so bad that some text was difficult to read.

Vaughn

Jim Carriere wrote:
Darrel Toepfer wrote:

RST Engineering wrote:

"John S" wrote...

Jim, I like some of the PDA based nav software (TeleType, Control
Vision),
but can't live with the tiny little screens on a PDA. And a nice
little
subnotebook computer--even used--is outrageously expensive.

J.C. Whitney sells a Pyramid 7" TFT/LCD monitor for DVD or
Videocassette
players (System: NTSC. Video input: composition video signal.) $150.
Will this kind of monitor work with a cheap laptop computer?



That is outside my field of expertise. Any bit twiddlers in here
care to respond?

Dual output laptops (notebooks) use SVGA/SVideo, so you'd have to
convert SVideo or SVGA to NTSC composite to be compatible. The dual
output allows you to have basically 2 desktops, an extension of your
current desktop or mirror the desktop to both displays...


I think there are some laptops around with composite video output, a
couple years ago we had some P-3 Dells at work with it I'm sure.

Composite is the one with a single yellow connector, right? (The same
type of connectors colored white and red are optional left and right
stereo sound.) My desktop computer has all 3 (VGA, S-Video, and
composite) inputs and outputs. I know, the original question is for
laptops.

Since a key part of the question is "cheap," it might take some shopping
around. I think there are inexpensive S-video to composite adapters
made too.

I'm typing from a computer that has composite out. Most Toshiba
notebooks have them. I have the Satellite model.

Unfortunately, it's useless for anything other than the DVD display as
the text is completely unreadable on the TV out.