Piper Altimatic II autopilots - anyone?

Greetings:



I have a Piper Altimatic II autopilot in my '64 C model Aztec which has been
in-op since I bought the airplane. I bought a service manual for this
autopilot with the idea of learning how it was supposed to work, and with
the hope of , maybe, just maybe, getting it to work and having it returned
to service. Yes, I know the unit is obsolete. Yes, I know the unit is
worthless. Yes, I know that most autopilot shops say the units are not
worth messing with. And yes,

I'm not inclined to spend / waste much money on it.



But, as an engineer and tinker, I am inclined to spend a little time
investigating. If it was good enough to be certified in the airplane, the
design once worked and it should still be able to do the job it was designed
for. I'm also inspired by a friend of mine who inherited his grandfather's
1947 Bonanza. He has been able to get the pneumatic based autopilot (yes, I
do mean air controls) in that airplane working and it works quite well. If
his pneumatic analog computer can be made to work, surely my germanium
transistor analog computer can also be made to work.



Therefore, I'd be very interesting in getting any information such as:



- A schematic of the console amplifier. The service manual does not include
one.



- Any theory of operation document for the console amplifier and/or the
radio coupler. The service manual has a good overall theory of operation
for the autopilot system, but does not go into the details for any of the
electronic components.



- Any old test equipment / test boxes that were designed to service and
adjust this AP.

The service manual lists some test boxes made by Mitchell.



- Any pieces and parts of any Altimatic II, (or Autocontrol II) such as the
RF gyros, console amplifier, control head, radio coupler, altitude bellows,
and servos (roll, pitch, trim) that you'd like to part with. If you have
any pieces and parts that might be useful for spare parts, I'd like to talk
to you.



- Leads to anyone who has experience working on these units, including
component level repair of the electronics. I'd love to find an experienced
technician / engineer that knows these units inside and out and who would
love to see one brought back to life.



- Any "been there, done that", "been there, tried that", type of stories,
positive or negative, from the group.



Again, I know this is a long shot, but I'm willing to invest some time and
energy to see what can be done. As a bare minimum, I'll learn a bunch.



Thanks,



Ronnie

- Leads to anyone who has experience working on these units, including
component level repair of the electronics. I'd love to find an
experienced
technician / engineer that knows these units inside and out and who would
love to see one brought back to life.


Hey Ronnie
Try:
Autopilots Central http://www.sparksaviationcenter.com/

Probably repeating something that you've already heard.

When we were Aztec shopping, we seriously considered a 65 C that had an
Altimatic II (inop) I called Autopilots Central and talked with them in
length about it's value and it's potential problems. They were very
patient, knowledgeable, and although they no longer work on them, answered
all my questions. I would definately give them a call.

Good luck.

Jim

Thanks Jim.

On a trip back from OSH 3 years ago, I had left engine trouble and
ended up making a stop in Tulsa, and the only FBO with maintenance
open on Saturday afternoon was Autopilots Central. I was impressed
with the place, and discussed the Altimatic II with the mechanic briefly.
But he said I needed to talk with the autopilot techs, which I've never
done. But I did learn that they didn't work on them any longer. I can
understand why. It is not exactly easy to find germanium transistors
these days. I work for a semiconductor company that is head quartered
in Silicon Valley, not Germanium Valley :-)

Anyway, thanks for the info. I think that is good advice.

Oh, BTW, what did you go with your old autopilot? Is it still in the
airplane, or did you throw it away? I'm hoping to find enough discarded
pieces and parts to be of some use.

Ronnie


"Jim Burns" wrote in message
...

- Leads to anyone who has experience working on these units, including
component level repair of the electronics. I'd love to find an
experienced
technician / engineer that knows these units inside and out and who would
love to see one brought back to life.


Hey Ronnie
Try:
Autopilots Central http://www.sparksaviationcenter.com/

Probably repeating something that you've already heard.

When we were Aztec shopping, we seriously considered a 65 C that had an
Altimatic II (inop) I called Autopilots Central and talked with them in
length about it's value and it's potential problems. They were very
patient, knowledgeable, and although they no longer work on them, answered
all my questions. I would definately give them a call.

Good luck.

Jim

Ignore my question about what you did with yours. I re-read your
post and see that was in an airplane you were considering, but did
not buy.

Ronnie

"Jim Burns" wrote in message
...

- Leads to anyone who has experience working on these units, including
component level repair of the electronics. I'd love to find an
experienced
technician / engineer that knows these units inside and out and who would
love to see one brought back to life.


Hey Ronnie
Try:
Autopilots Central http://www.sparksaviationcenter.com/

Probably repeating something that you've already heard.

When we were Aztec shopping, we seriously considered a 65 C that had an
Altimatic II (inop) I called Autopilots Central and talked with them in
length about it's value and it's potential problems. They were very
patient, knowledgeable, and although they no longer work on them, answered
all my questions. I would definately give them a call.

Good luck.

Jim

Oh, BTW, what did you go with your old autopilot? Is it still in the
airplane, or did you throw it away? I'm hoping to find enough discarded
pieces and parts to be of some use.

Ronnie

Bob Ferguson was the man that I talked to about the Altimatic II and I also
talked to him another time re our current S-Tec 60-2 and KLN94 regarding
GPSS roll steering (can't do it, the two are not compatible). Anyway, Bob
told me that unless the seller of the 65 C would take about $15 AMU's off
the price, forget about the airplane because that would be what it would
cost to rip out the old and install a new 2 axis, altitude hold, coupled AP.
Needless to say, we walked, and that was one of the main reasons.

Jim

nobody wrote:
Greetings:



I have a Piper Altimatic II autopilot in my '64 C model Aztec which has been
in-op since I bought the airplane. I bought a service manual for this
autopilot with the idea of learning how it was supposed to work, and with
the hope of , maybe, just maybe, getting it to work and having it returned
to service. Yes, I know the unit is obsolete. Yes, I know the unit is
worthless. Yes, I know that most autopilot shops say the units are not
worth messing with. And yes,

I'm not inclined to spend / waste much money on it.
/snip/

Contact the folks at http://www.bevanrabell.com

Not sure about now, but they used to work on ALL the old stuff...

Happy Flying!
Scott Skylane
N92054

I'll check them out.
Thanks,
Ronnie

"Scott Skylane" wrote in message
...
nobody wrote:
Greetings:



I have a Piper Altimatic II autopilot in my '64 C model Aztec which has
been in-op since I bought the airplane. I bought a service manual for
this autopilot with the idea of learning how it was supposed to work, and
with the hope of , maybe, just maybe, getting it to work and having it
returned to service. Yes, I know the unit is obsolete. Yes, I know the
unit is worthless. Yes, I know that most autopilot shops say the units
are not worth messing with. And yes,

I'm not inclined to spend / waste much money on it.
/snip/

Contact the folks at http://www.bevanrabell.com

Not sure about now, but they used to work on ALL the old stuff...

Happy Flying!
Scott Skylane
N92054

Bevan Rabell is located in Wichita, Kansas at ICT.
In Novermber 2005 Bevan worked over the autopilot in a C-210M which I
sometimes fly.

Jim Burns wrote:
- Leads to anyone who has experience working on these units, including
component level repair of the electronics. I'd love to find an
experienced
technician / engineer that knows these units inside and out and who would
love to see one brought back to life.


Hey Ronnie
Try:
Autopilots Central http://www.sparksaviationcenter.com/

Probably repeating something that you've already heard.

When we were Aztec shopping, we seriously considered a 65 C that had an
Altimatic II (inop) I called Autopilots Central and talked with them in
length about it's value and it's potential problems. They were very
patient, knowledgeable, and although they no longer work on them, answered
all my questions. I would definately give them a call.

Good luck.

Jim

I've had good luck with AutoPilot Central in Tulsa OK. Talked to Randy
Herren a couple of years ago and they work on and know Piper
Autopilots.

Chuck
Archer 2185B

I'll write more later, but I just had to report some sucess.

Long story short, the old Altimatic II is now working and it
works quite well. The wing lever / heading control / NAV &
LOC intercept and tracking all are working great. The pitch
control is working as is the altitude hold, but the altitude pre-select
calibration and its ability to command the airplane to climb or descent
at the correct airspeed to capture the selected altitude still needs some
adjustment. However, based on what I see so far, this should be a simple
matter of following the setup proceedure in the service manual
to make the necessary adjustments.

As it stands, I flew an ILS using only the autopilot controls for
intercepting and tracking the localizer and for controlling pitch
to stay on the glide slope. After living without an autopilot for
almost 6 years, it was a great feeling to see it work. The only real
issues were that the roll servo was loose in its mount allowing the drive
gears to slip and that the mechanical linkage between the pitch servo
the flight controls was loose. With those items tightened up, it came
to life.

Fooey on me for believing the previous owner when he told me
it was INOP and for not investigating it sooner.

Don't disount an old autopilot as being useless just because it is old and
someone elese tells you it is not worth messing with as I did for 6 years.
With just a little bit of effort, this one came back to life. Time will
tell how
it holds up, but since it was built in 1964 and is still working, I'm
hopeful
it will work for a few more years.

Ronnie

"nobody" wrote in message
et...
Greetings:



I have a Piper Altimatic II autopilot in my '64 C model Aztec which has
been in-op since I bought the airplane. I bought a service manual for
this autopilot with the idea of learning how it was supposed to work, and
with the hope of , maybe, just maybe, getting it to work and having it
returned to service. Yes, I know the unit is obsolete. Yes, I know the
unit is worthless. Yes, I know that most autopilot shops say the units
are not worth messing with. And yes,

I'm not inclined to spend / waste much money on it.



But, as an engineer and tinker, I am inclined to spend a little time
investigating. If it was good enough to be certified in the airplane, the
design once worked and it should still be able to do the job it was
designed for. I'm also inspired by a friend of mine who inherited his
grandfather's 1947 Bonanza. He has been able to get the pneumatic based
autopilot (yes, I do mean air controls) in that airplane working and it
works quite well. If his pneumatic analog computer can be made to work,
surely my germanium transistor analog computer can also be made to work.



Therefore, I'd be very interesting in getting any information such as:



- A schematic of the console amplifier. The service manual does not
include one.



- Any theory of operation document for the console amplifier and/or the
radio coupler. The service manual has a good overall theory of operation
for the autopilot system, but does not go into the details for any of the
electronic components.



- Any old test equipment / test boxes that were designed to service and
adjust this AP.

The service manual lists some test boxes made by Mitchell.



- Any pieces and parts of any Altimatic II, (or Autocontrol II) such as
the RF gyros, console amplifier, control head, radio coupler, altitude
bellows, and servos (roll, pitch, trim) that you'd like to part with. If
you have any pieces and parts that might be useful for spare parts, I'd
like to talk to you.



- Leads to anyone who has experience working on these units, including
component level repair of the electronics. I'd love to find an
experienced technician / engineer that knows these units inside and out
and who would love to see one brought back to life.



- Any "been there, done that", "been there, tried that", type of stories,
positive or negative, from the group.



Again, I know this is a long shot, but I'm willing to invest some time and
energy to see what can be done. As a bare minimum, I'll learn a bunch.



Thanks,



Ronnie