Scheibe/Alliance SF-34

I'm looking for information on the Schiebe/Alliance SF-34. Would any of
our German or French brothers care to comment on the suitability of the
SF-34 as a club training glider? Handling qualities, comfort,
durability, soaring performance?

To my knowledge, there are only two examples of this glider in the U.S.
I flew one of them many years ago and my memory of the experience is
fading.

Thanks,

Wallace

We have a SF-34 in our club as a trainer on "plastic", because we cannot
afford a more expensive two-seater as the ASK-21
we have also 2 ASK-13 for initial training on "wood"

The SF-34 is heavier on the stick, a real two-seater

I have flown the French version Alliance-34 a few times
The controls of the Alliance are easier, more like a single-seater
In France this glider is used for first solos

The soaring performances of both are rather modest, but OK for the price

Jan Waumans
Belgium








"Wallace Berry" wrote in message
...
I'm looking for information on the Schiebe/Alliance SF-34. Would any of
our German or French brothers care to comment on the suitability of the
SF-34 as a club training glider? Handling qualities, comfort,
durability, soaring performance?

To my knowledge, there are only two examples of this glider in the U.S.
I flew one of them many years ago and my memory of the experience is
fading.

Thanks,

Wallace

In article , "JW"
wrote:

We have a SF-34 in our club as a trainer on "plastic", because we cannot
afford a more expensive two-seater as the ASK-21
we have also 2 ASK-13 for initial training on "wood"

The SF-34 is heavier on the stick, a real two-seater

I have flown the French version Alliance-34 a few times
The controls of the Alliance are easier, more like a single-seater
In France this glider is used for first solos

The soaring performances of both are rather modest, but OK for the price

Jan Waumans
Belgium



Great information. Thanks Jan. My club is in the same situation. We need
another two seater, we prefer plastic, but can't afford an ASK-21 or
even a Grob. A Schiebe SF-34 has been offered to us for a reasonable
price.

To be honest the ASK-13's fly more than the SF

the cost per minute is lower, and instructors love the ASK-13

JW

"Wallace Berry" wrote in message
...
In article , "JW"
wrote:

We have a SF-34 in our club as a trainer on "plastic", because we cannot
afford a more expensive two-seater as the ASK-21
we have also 2 ASK-13 for initial training on "wood"

The SF-34 is heavier on the stick, a real two-seater

I have flown the French version Alliance-34 a few times
The controls of the Alliance are easier, more like a single-seater
In France this glider is used for first solos

The soaring performances of both are rather modest, but OK for the price

Jan Waumans
Belgium



Great information. Thanks Jan. My club is in the same situation. We need
another two seater, we prefer plastic, but can't afford an ASK-21 or
even a Grob. A Schiebe SF-34 has been offered to us for a reasonable
price.

In article , "JW"
wrote:

To be honest the ASK-13's fly more than the SF

the cost per minute is lower, and instructors love the ASK-13

JW


Our current trainer is a Blanik L-23 which serves fairly well. Previous
to the Blanik we used a Ka-7. We considered importing one or more
ASK-13's back when the dollar was strong. Great ship but, alas, many
Americans are now too heavy and/or too tall to fit in either the Ka-7 or
ASK-13. We have a number of members who barely fit in the Blanik.
Luckily, we have an instructor who is relatively light.

Maybe flight instructors should resemble jockeys!

Wallace Berry wrote:
.....snip... Great ship but, alas, many
Americans are now too heavy and/or too tall to fit in either the Ka-7 or
ASK-13. We have a number of members who barely fit in the Blanik.
Luckily, we have an instructor who is relatively light.

Maybe flight instructors should resemble jockeys!

We've found this to be an increasing problem. We have two K13s. One
has had the front panel cut away at the bottom and it is the only one
that a number of taller members can fit in and have proper rudder
control. The young are becoming heavier, but even more are becoming taller.

Our Puchacz is the best for fitting all heights but it still has the
110kg limit.

Graeme Cant

I'd let the memories fade....I've flown the SF34 it was Schiebes attempt at
getting into the K21 Grob Twin market... IMHO it's just not a terrific
glider..in many ways it's like comparing the K13 to the Bergfalkes....some
of our German friends might help us out here but I've heard them explain it
like this, The K13's (and most K gliders) Fly like you feel.....the Schiebe
Gliders...."do things in the air".......
Construction is fair to not so fair....design is just missing something,
crude by current standards, it's essentially a 15 meter glass two
seater..Performance is probably a tad better than the K13's but don't expect
much over 30-1 regardless of the brochures...
tim
Wings & Wheels
www.wingsandwheels.com

"Wallace Berry" wrote in message
...
I'm looking for information on the Schiebe/Alliance SF-34. Would any of
our German or French brothers care to comment on the suitability of the
SF-34 as a club training glider? Handling qualities, comfort,
durability, soaring performance?

To my knowledge, there are only two examples of this glider in the U.S.
I flew one of them many years ago and my memory of the experience is
fading.

Thanks,

Wallace

In article ,
"Tim Mara" wrote:

I'd let the memories fade....I've flown the SF34 it was Schiebes attempt at
getting into the K21 Grob Twin market... IMHO it's just not a terrific
glider..in many ways it's like comparing the K13 to the Bergfalkes....some
of our German friends might help us out here but I've heard them explain it
like this, The K13's (and most K gliders) Fly like you feel.....the Schiebe
Gliders...."do things in the air".......
Construction is fair to not so fair....design is just missing something,
crude by current standards, it's essentially a 15 meter glass two
seater..Performance is probably a tad better than the K13's but don't expect
much over 30-1 regardless of the brochures...
tim
Wings & Wheels
www.wingsandwheels.com



Others have told me the same thing about Schiebe gliders, that they just
don't handle that well. However, I've heard that the SF-25 is not bad.
My memory of the SF-34 was that it was somewhat rudimentary compared to
the Grob or ASK-21. My admittedly imperfect memory of the control feel,
was that it handled somewhat like a 2 seat 1-26, if that makes any
sense. I seem to remember that I liked the handling better than the
Grob. I definitely remember that my fingers got pinched against the
cockpit side when I actuated the divebrakes. I also remember quite well
that it would spin fairly easily, but would also recover easily.

About 30:1 is what I would expect considering the usual relationship
between claimed and actual performance.


It's hard to find any decent 2 seaters in the U.S. right now. Even tired
old L-13's are hard to come by at a reasonable price. The PW-6 looks
like a good trainer, but with the dollar weak, even that is too
expensive. Howsabout talking HPH into building a 2 seat equivalent to
the 304c?

Speaking of Glasflugels: What ever happened to that 2 place side-by-side
Glasflugel design?

It's hard to find any decent 2 seaters in the U.S. right now. Even tired
old L-13's are hard to come by at a reasonable price. The PW-6 looks
like a good trainer, but with the dollar weak, even that is too
expensive. Howsabout talking HPH into building a 2 seat equivalent to
the 304c?

That would be a great idea....and I know it has at least crossed the minds
of the HpH team...but the cost to develop a new two seat trainer and bring
it to the market would today be I think, intolerable. We're even seeing
resistance to the high costs of older and current designs in the two place
market and the development costs of these were covered years ago. I doubt
there is market enough for 100-200 new two seat gliders at
$100,000 -$150,000 each today and that's likely what would be needed for
anyone to be successful with a new design.

Speaking of Glasflugels: What ever happened to that 2 place side-by-side
Glasflugel design?

that and many other "Hanle" brainstorms were unfortunately lost with his
untimely passing.
tim

Tim

Fortunately, the factory price of a PW-6, instrumented in both cockpits
is US 60,000 today -- trailer extra

I doubt there is market enough for 100-200 new two seat gliders at
$100,000 -$150,000 each today and that's likely what would be needed for
anyone to be successful with a new design.