question on student taxi practice

Has anybody ever heard of an instructor turning a pre-solo student loose in
an airplane alone for taxi practice around an airport without supervision ?
It was basically "go taxi the airplane around the airport and taxiways but
don't go on the runway and don't take off, I'll come back to check on you in
30 minutes" Is this a normal thing ?

On 04/06/06 10:44, Mark wrote:
Has anybody ever heard of an instructor turning a pre-solo student loose in
an airplane alone for taxi practice around an airport without supervision ?
It was basically "go taxi the airplane around the airport and taxiways but
don't go on the runway and don't take off, I'll come back to check on you in
30 minutes" Is this a normal thing ?




Did your instructor give you a solo endorsement?

I'm not sure if the FAA recognizes ground-only operations as a separate
type of solo.

--
Mark Hansen, PP-ASEL, Instrument Airplane
Cal Aggie Flying Farmers
Sacramento, CA

"Mark" wrote in message
...
Has anybody ever heard of an instructor turning a pre-solo student loose
in
an airplane alone for taxi practice around an airport without supervision
?
It was basically "go taxi the airplane around the airport and taxiways but
don't go on the runway and don't take off, I'll come back to check on you
in
30 minutes" Is this a normal thing ?


Far as I know anybody can taxi a GA training type airplane.

Does not sound legal in the USA for the average student
pilot. Aircraft mechanics often get a "taxi approval" from
their employer to cover insurance requirements. Just
taxiing may not require a solo endorsement, but it sure
raises some issues of liability and insurance coverage.


--
James H. Macklin
ATP,CFI,A&P

--
The people think the Constitution protects their rights;
But government sees it as an obstacle to be overcome.
some support
http://www.usdoj.gov/olc/secondamendment2.htm
See http://www.fija.org/ more about your rights and duties.


"Mark" wrote in message
...
| Has anybody ever heard of an instructor turning a pre-solo
student loose in
| an airplane alone for taxi practice around an airport
without supervision ?
| It was basically "go taxi the airplane around the airport
and taxiways but
| don't go on the runway and don't take off, I'll come back
to check on you in
| 30 minutes" Is this a normal thing ?
|
|

Has anybody ever heard of an instructor turning a pre-solo student loose
in
an airplane alone for taxi practice around an airport without supervision
?
It was basically "go taxi the airplane around the airport and taxiways but
don't go on the runway and don't take off, I'll come back to check on you
in
30 minutes" Is this a normal thing ?

It wasn't me, and I don't care what the FAA thinks. I'll rephrase my
question. Is it a usual and accepted practice for a CFI to let a 2 hour
time, pre solo student taxi around unsupervised solo ?

no!
"Mark" wrote in message
...
| Has anybody ever heard of an instructor turning a
pre-solo student loose
| in
| an airplane alone for taxi practice around an airport
without supervision
| ?
| It was basically "go taxi the airplane around the
airport and taxiways but
| don't go on the runway and don't take off, I'll come
back to check on you
| in
| 30 minutes" Is this a normal thing ?
|
| It wasn't me, and I don't care what the FAA thinks. I'll
rephrase my
| question. Is it a usual and accepted practice for a CFI
to let a 2 hour
| time, pre solo student taxi around unsupervised solo ?
|
|

T o d d P a t t i s t wrote:
No, it's not very common. It's entirely legal, however. If
there is no intent to take off, there is no requirement to
have a pilot's license of any kind.

Questions of intent (to take-off or otherwise) are an open
invitation for a litigation problems involving cuplability
if some accident or incident ocurred. It won;t really matter
if what happened was "legal' or not, if someone sues its up
to a judge or jury to decide.

The FARs state that you can log time (PIC or otherwise) whenever
you are the sole manipulator of the controls and the airplane
is moving under its own power. Personally, I would never allow
a student to go out an operate an airplane alone (taxiing or
otherwise until he was signed off for solo. I wouldn't want to
have to explain such a situation in court if anything happened.

Mark wrote:
It wasn't me, and I don't care what the FAA thinks. I'll rephrase my
question. Is it a usual and accepted practice for a CFI to let a 2 hour
time, pre solo student taxi around unsupervised solo ?

No, it is not usual and accepted practice.

On 04/06/06 11:09, T o d d P a t t i s t wrote:
Mark Hansen wrote:

Did your instructor give you a solo endorsement?

It's not required.

I'm not sure if the FAA recognizes ground-only operations as a separate
type of solo.

It's not solo, since he's not acting as PIC, solo or
otherwise. No license is required for taxiing without the
intent to commit aviation. It may not be covered by
insurance, however, which is probably why it's not commonly
done.

§ 61.3 Requirement for certificates, ratings, and
authorizations.
(a) Pilot certificate. A person may not act as pilot in
command or in any other capacity as a required pilot flight
crewmember of a civil aircraft of U.S. registry, unless that
person—
(1) Has a valid pilot certificate ....

§ 1.1 "Pilot in command" means the pilot responsible for
the operation and safety of an aircraft during flight time.

"Flight time" means the time from the moment the aircraft
first moves under its own power for the purpose of flight
until the moment it comes to rest at the next point of
landing. ("Block-to-block" time.)

Thanks, Todd. Those were exactly the pieces I was trying to think of.


--
Mark Hansen, PP-ASEL, Instrument Airplane
Cal Aggie Flying Farmers
Sacramento, CA

T o d d P a t t i s t wrote:
It's not solo, since he's not acting as PIC, solo or
otherwise. No license is required for taxiing without the
intent to commit aviation. It may not be covered by
insurance, however, which is probably why it's not commonly
done.

Well you are splitting some very fine hairs Todd. I'm not
sure your argument (or the FARs you quoted) would withstand
the situation of someone taxiing around a controlled airport
where you need a clearance to taxi. It would seem to me that
you would have to be PIC in order to accept the clearance
and thus would be the "sole manipulator of the controls" etc.

I can't believe there was any intent by FAA to make it entirely
permissable for any unlicensed person to be taxiing around
airports with impugnity.