Rotax engines- LSA's hope, or curse?

I see that two LSA aircrafts that had already been certified, crashed on
their way to SnF, when their engines failed on takeoff. Pilots are badly
injured, but alive, thank goodness. At least the slow speed, low energy
philosophy of the LSA seems to be allowing people to survive bad incidents.

Am I the only one who thinks that Rotax still leaves a lot to be desired,
even their 4 strokes?

I still will not set foot inside an aircraft that is powered by one. Until
an alternate engine is available, LSA is dead on arrival, IMHO.

Jubaru? I don't know. There are more than a few bad reports on them, too.
O-200's are still a choice, as are C-85's, I suppose, but weight and price
makes them somewhat questionable.

I hate to be the pessimist, and I am not a troll, for those who know me
here, but what is a person to do? I had to get it off my chest.
--
Jim in NC

"Morgans" wrote:
I see that two LSA aircrafts that had already been certified, crashed
on their way to SnF, when their engines failed on takeoff.

I couldn't find any info on the Highlander crash that mentioned engine
problems. What sources are you using as supporting material?

Jim Logajan wrote:
"Morgans" wrote:
I see that two LSA aircrafts that had already been certified, crashed
on their way to SnF, when their engines failed on takeoff.

I couldn't find any info on the Highlander crash that mentioned engine
problems. What sources are you using as supporting material?

Doesn't specifically say "engine" problems, but Avweb says:

-snip-
In Walhalla, S.C., on April 2, Just Aircraft co-owner Gary Schmitt also
had problems on takeoff and was unable to make a safe landing. Schmitt
was flying a Highlander, which was just approved the week before as an
S-LSA. The aircraft was destroyed and Schmitt was seriously hurt. No
further details were available at our deadline.
-snip-

http://www.avweb.com/eletter/archive.../610-full.html

-R

American Champion is re-introducing the Champ with brand new O-200s. All
dolled up it looks to be $84K. It knock the socks off the plastic, god
awful ugly LSAs I have seen.

"Morgans" wrote in message
...
I see that two LSA aircrafts that had already been certified, crashed on
their way to SnF, when their engines failed on takeoff. Pilots are badly
injured, but alive, thank goodness. At least the slow speed, low energy
philosophy of the LSA seems to be allowing people to survive bad incidents.

Am I the only one who thinks that Rotax still leaves a lot to be desired,
even their 4 strokes?

I still will not set foot inside an aircraft that is powered by one.
Until an alternate engine is available, LSA is dead on arrival, IMHO.

Jubaru? I don't know. There are more than a few bad reports on them,
too. O-200's are still a choice, as are C-85's, I suppose, but weight and
price makes them somewhat questionable.

I hate to be the pessimist, and I am not a troll, for those who know me
here, but what is a person to do? I had to get it off my chest.
--
Jim in NC

"Morgans" wrote in message
...
I see that two LSA aircrafts that had already been certified, crashed on
their way to SnF, when their engines failed on takeoff. Pilots are badly
injured, but alive, thank goodness. At least the slow speed, low energy
philosophy of the LSA seems to be allowing people to survive bad incidents.

Am I the only one who thinks that Rotax still leaves a lot to be desired,
even their 4 strokes?

I still will not set foot inside an aircraft that is powered by one.
Until an alternate engine is available, LSA is dead on arrival, IMHO.

Jubaru? I don't know. There are more than a few bad reports on them,
too. O-200's are still a choice, as are C-85's, I suppose, but weight and
price makes them somewhat questionable.

I hate to be the pessimist, and I am not a troll, for those who know me
here, but what is a person to do? I had to get it off my chest.
--
Jim in NC

We have a lot of U/L and Light Sport eligible aircraft at my home airfield.
The guys with the 4 stroke Rotax engines never seem to have any problems. I
also have a couple of friends who fly Sonexes (?) with both 4 and 6 cylinder
Jabirus, and they don't seem to have any problems. The guys with the 2
strokes play glider pilot a lot. One fellow a couple of hangars down
probably has a half dozen off-airport landings due to engine problems with 2
stroke engines. I'd guess he has 2,000 hours behind 2 strokes.
Fortunately, there is a lot of farmland near my field which has really
helped keep the 2 stroke guys out of big trouble.

My take on the situation is that a Light Sport aircraft with a 4 stroke
Rotax or a Jabiru is a viable flying machine with X/C ability. The aircraft
with 2 stroke engines are a far different proposition.

KB

Same with the Legend Cub.. a slight rework of the original J-3, LSA
qualified and about the same price range
BT

"Dave Stadt" wrote in message
. ..

American Champion is re-introducing the Champ with brand new O-200s. All
dolled up it looks to be $84K. It knock the socks off the plastic, god
awful ugly LSAs I have seen.

"Morgans" wrote in message
...
I see that two LSA aircrafts that had already been certified, crashed on
their way to SnF, when their engines failed on takeoff. Pilots are badly
injured, but alive, thank goodness. At least the slow speed, low energy
philosophy of the LSA seems to be allowing people to survive bad
incidents.

Am I the only one who thinks that Rotax still leaves a lot to be desired,
even their 4 strokes?

I still will not set foot inside an aircraft that is powered by one.
Until an alternate engine is available, LSA is dead on arrival, IMHO.

Jubaru? I don't know. There are more than a few bad reports on them,
too. O-200's are still a choice, as are C-85's, I suppose, but weight and
price makes them somewhat questionable.

I hate to be the pessimist, and I am not a troll, for those who know me
here, but what is a person to do? I had to get it off my chest.
--
Jim in NC

"Jim Logajan" wrote in message
.. .
"Morgans" wrote:
I see that two LSA aircrafts that had already been certified, crashed
on their way to SnF, when their engines failed on takeoff.

I couldn't find any info on the Highlander crash that mentioned engine
problems. What sources are you using as supporting material?

You are totally within you rights to question whether it was engine
problems.

The report I saw said he had problems on takeoff.

With a LSA, there is not much to cause problems on takeoff, other than the
engine. No controllable prop. No landing gear to retract. I suppose he
could have failed to remove gust locks, but I doubt it.

He could have taken off over gross, on too short of a runway. I doubt it.

So, yes, it is my assumption that the engine failed to make full power. We
will see, upon further facts being published.

Once again, I am pleased that both pilots will be able to give a more
complete account of the problems they experienced.
--
Jim in NC

Buy me a beer, if I am right? g
--
Jim in NC

Dave Stadt wrote:
American Champion is re-introducing the Champ with brand new O-200s. All
dolled up it looks to be $84K. It knock the socks off the plastic, god
awful ugly LSAs I have seen.

You sure about that? When I met the owner of the company a few years
back he was gung-ho on putting the Champ in production with a Jabaru.
At the time, his hold up was finding a prop that would match the engine
and not over speed. If he went with the O-200 I'm betting it was
because of the prop problem, not a concern with the Jabaru.

One advantage that the "the plastic, god awful ugly LSAs" do have over
the Champ is the insurance. Check out the article in this month's Sport
Pilot magazine about the problems insuring an LSA taildragger.

Helen

"Helen" wrote in message
...
Dave Stadt wrote:
American Champion is re-introducing the Champ with brand new O-200s. All
dolled up it looks to be $84K. It knock the socks off the plastic, god
awful ugly LSAs I have seen.

You sure about that? When I met the owner of the company a few years back
he was gung-ho on putting the Champ in production with a Jabaru. At the
time, his hold up was finding a prop that would match the engine and not
over speed. If he went with the O-200 I'm betting it was because of the
prop problem, not a concern with the Jabaru.

One advantage that the "the plastic, god awful ugly LSAs" do have over the
Champ is the insurance. Check out the article in this month's Sport Pilot
magazine about the problems insuring an LSA taildragger.

Helen

Trust me I saw it a couple of weeks ago. My guess is he realized they would
be easier to sell with the Continental. Can't see why a Champ would be any
more expensive to insure as an LSA than they are now. A new one would
obviously be more as the hull value is much more.

On 2006-04-11, Morgans wrote:
With a LSA, there is not much to cause problems on takeoff, other than the
engine.

There's a lot that can stop an engine other than the engine itself being
broken:
- fuel system blockage
- fuel contamination
- too much air in the fuel (i.e. ran out of fuel)
- fuel getting unported due to tank/fuel system design
- fuel selector in the wrong position
- fuel pump failure (if applicable)
- spark plug failure
- magneto failure (even with dual mags, some types of failure on one mag
can cause rough running and power loss)
- carburettor icing
- air filter blockage/failure
- improperly fitted oil filters/screens/drain plugs

And that's not the limit to what peripheral systems can cause the engine
they serve to quit.

If it was a two stroke, well, just due to the nature of two stroke
engines, generally they have incredibly short TBOs and are horribly
unreliable regardless of who makes them (and you have to operate
aviation two strokes very carefully or they have a nasty tendency to
seize).

As for Rotax 4 strokes, nothing really leads me to believe they are any
less reliable than any other aviation 4 stroke - other than in the US,
mechanics not being all that familiar with them (it's a different story
here - the Rotax 4 strokes are quite popular in light homebuilts - I've
flown behind the turbocharged 912S and it seems to be a pretty capable
engine in use).

--
Dylan Smith, Port St Mary, Isle of Man
Flying: http://www.dylansmith.net
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