4th July Independence Day Message to the US

A recent UK Parliamentary Committee, who are definitely
not revolutionary hotheads, concluded that the so called
'War on Terrorism', far from curing the problem, is
actually stoking up further terrorist problems, with
our own indigenous young Muslims being sufficiently
radicalised as to become suicide bombers. The London
Tube and Bus bombings last year were carried out by
just such a group. I believe that a similar plot by
young US Muslim citizens in the USA has been recently
foiled.

I am a white English Anglo-Saxon Protestant, but I
find myself appalled at the daily goings on in Iraq,
Afghanistan and Guantamano Bay. Anything Saddam Hussain
did in the past palls into almost insignificance by
comparison. Two wrongs do not make a right and the
USA's policies are bringing it into total disrepute
around the World. You have only succeeded in creating
millions of unnecessary enemies. Those of us who opposed
the unjustified and unsanctioned invasions of Afghanistan
and Iraq did our best to point this out as a possible
consequence at the time!

Derek C

Derek Copeland wrote:
Anything Saddam Hussain
did in the past palls into almost insignificance by
comparison.

Oh please. Hussain's intent and acts of mass murderings of his own
people compare to the Allied intent and acts?

Two wrongs do not make a right and the
USA's policies are bringing it into total disrepute
around the World.

So the US put a gun to Tony Blair's head and forced the Brit's to
participate? Look to yourself if you are going to point (even
misguided) fingers.

You have only succeeded in creating
millions of unnecessary enemies. Those of us who opposed
the unjustified and unsanctioned invasions of Afghanistan
and Iraq did our best to point this out as a possible
consequence at the time!

Had Bin Laden been captured in Afghanistan, as he almost was and may
well yet be, the "popular" opinion would be quite different.

These terrorists are the worst of animals that will stop at nothing.
Yes, war is hell and there are painful consequences. But to do nothing
after Sept. 11 was not an option. You and I don't know how much more
mayhem has been *prevented* by actively seeking out these animals. My
bet is it has been a lot. It's a new world, and an unfriendly one. We
are at war. One that we did not start. Grow up and deal with it.
Directing outlandish statements at the US on this forum, especially on
our Independence Day, serves no useful purpose.

Doug Hoffman

"Derek Copeland" wrote in message
...
A recent UK Parliamentary Committee, who are definitely
not revolutionary hotheads,

This is a topic I find interesting and compelling, but it has no place on
ras. I have seen too many groups evaporate in a torrent of off-topic political
gassing.

Soaring is a wonderful, worldwide, sport that almost always transcends
politics. Please keep politics off of ras. There are many other groups where
this subject is completely appropriate; use them, invite us there if you wish.

Regards
Vaughn

Just one point and two questions for you Doug.

1) I suspect that Tony Blair was coerced into supporting
the US on this issue. Every political trick and every
bit of spin was used to force it through Parliament,
including the 'Weapons of Mass Destruction' about to
rain down on our heads within 15 minutes, 'Tony knows
best!' The Prime Minister's authority, etc, etc. The
country in general was dead against the invasion of
Iraq and it sparked the biggest demonstrations ever
seen in the UK's major cities. Somewhere between two
and three million turned out in London alone. The first
time we have ever been in agreement with the French!


Q1. Do you honestly think that capturing or killing
Bin Laden would make a scrap of difference? There are
plenty of others ready to take his place?

Q2. Do you have any proof that the Iraq or Afghanistan
Governments had anything to do with 9/11? I can think
of several more likely Middle Eastern countries. As
far as I am concerned the invasion of Iraq was a bit
like kicking the cat after a bad day. I would have
hoped that the US would have at least obeyed the rule
of law as layed down by the UN. If the most powerful
country in the World won't accept the rule of law as
laid down by an International body, why should anyone
else?

Anyway, you have got yourselves into three unwinnable
wars entirely of your own making, so I suggest that
you elect a President and a Government who are intelligent
enough to negotiate a way out next time.

On your Independence Day (from us), I hope you will
spare a thought for all those suffering in Iraq and
Afghanistan, the victims of 9/11, the Madrid and London
bombings and their families, and our respective soldiers
who have to enforce these unsanctioned policies.

Derek Copeland


At 13:48 04 July 2006, Doug Hoffman wrote:

Derek Copeland wrote:
Anything Saddam Hussain
did in the past palls into almost insignificance by
comparison.

Oh please. Hussain's intent and acts of mass murderings
of his own
people compare to the Allied intent and acts?

Two wrongs do not make a right and the
USA's policies are bringing it into total disrepute
around the World.

So the US put a gun to Tony Blair's head and forced
the Brit's to
participate? Look to yourself if you are going to
point (even
misguided) fingers.

You have only succeeded in creating
millions of unnecessary enemies. Those of us who opposed
the unjustified and unsanctioned invasions of Afghanistan
and Iraq did our best to point this out as a possible
consequence at the time!

Had Bin Laden been captured in Afghanistan, as he almost
was and may
well yet be, the 'popular' opinion would be quite different.

These terrorists are the worst of animals that will
stop at nothing.
Yes, war is hell and there are painful consequences.
But to do nothing
after Sept. 11 was not an option. You and I don't
know how much more
mayhem has been *prevented* by actively seeking out
these animals. My
bet is it has been a lot. It's a new world, and an
unfriendly one. We
are at war. One that we did not start. Grow up and
deal with it.
Directing outlandish statements at the US on this forum,
especially on
our Independence Day, serves no useful purpose.

Doug Hoffman

Vaughn Simon wrote:
"Derek Copeland" wrote in message
...

A recent UK Parliamentary Committee, who are definitely
not revolutionary hotheads,


This is a topic I find interesting and compelling, but it has no place on
ras. I have seen too many groups evaporate in a torrent of off-topic political
gassing.

FWIW, it seems to me that these sorts of discussions get more civil and
meaningful discussion when posted on an OT newsgroup such as this one,
rather than when posted on one of the obvious political groups, where
the lines between positions are much clearer and opinions are intractable.
I'd still rather discuss soaring (my opinions are pretty solidified on
this subject). ;-)

Shawn

Derek
As stated by others this is not the place for Political Rantings=20
so for the benefit of our American Soaring Friends=20
I'll say it=20
SHUT THE F***k UP

One of the problems is that it is quite difficult to
get anything published in the mainstream US media that
doesn't support the 'America is wonderful' theme. I
have tried!

Anyway don't worry Shawn, as shall be going back to
kicking the PW-5 and supporting Club Class gliding
shortly.

Derek C

At 16:54 04 July 2006, Shawn wrote:
This is a topic I find interesting and compelling,
but it has no place on
ras. I have seen too many groups evaporate in a torrent
of off-topic political
gassing.

FWIW, it seems to me that these sorts of discussions
get more civil and
meaningful discussion when posted on an OT newsgroup
such as this one,
rather than when posted on one of the obvious political
groups, where
the lines between positions are much clearer and opinions
are intractable.
I'd still rather discuss soaring (my opinions are pretty
solidified on
this subject). ;-)

Shawn

Derek Copeland wrote:
One of the problems is that it is quite difficult to
get anything published in the mainstream US media that
doesn't support the 'America is wonderful' theme. I
have tried!

Oh bull****. The Denver Post, a very mainstream paper, is often
critical of the direction the US is going, as is National Public Radio,
PBS, CNN and even The Discovery Channel, to wit:
http://dsc.discovery.com/convergence...k=fsmain_feat4

Derek, in general I agree with you, but jingoism is definitely on the
wane in the US.


Anyway don't worry Shawn, as shall be going back to
kicking the PW-5 and supporting Club Class gliding
shortly.

Yes!

Shawn

From what I have read US troops are to busy shooting innocents, bashing
prisoners, raping the natives, looting, jailing innocents, playing satanic
music while shooting, blowing up the town to even have the time to find or
look for Osama Bin Laden

Hardly a positive thing or anything to celebrate.

that is what all you LIBERALS say..
"Mal" wrote in message
...
From what I have read US troops are to busy shooting innocents, bashing
prisoners, raping the natives, looting, jailing innocents, playing satanic
music while shooting, blowing up the town to even have the time to find or
look for Osama Bin Laden

Hardly a positive thing or anything to celebrate.