Landing Advice...

All,

Occasionally, I find myself in the following situation when landing. I
am trying to figure out what I am doing wrong.

I fly over the numbers at the proper airspeed, and on the (VASI)
glideslope. I flare by putting the cowling to the horizon and holding
off unitl touchdown. After touchdown, I find the plane drifting to the
left, while the nose is pointing to the right. Applying further right
rudder seems to result in a squirrley/sliding feeling (not sure if I am
acutally sliding though, just afraid to push it any further). Applying
brakes at anything more than very slight pressure results in skidding.
At this point, I find myself rolling down the runway, unable to slow
down fast enough and trying to control the drift.

This could happen in little to no wind conditions. What am I doing
wrong? I'm not a beginner, but occasionally this happens and I can't
seem to figure it out.

Do I need to....

A. Crank in aggressive alieron to the right.
B. Apply lots of back-pressure to get more weight on the mains to allow
breaking.
C. Something else....?

Dan

After touchdown, I find the plane drifting to the
left, while the nose is pointing to the right. Applying further right
rudder seems to result in a squirrley/sliding feeling (not sure if I am
acutally sliding though, just afraid to push it any further).

Maybe you've picked up some wind. Surface winds are often different
from winds even slightly aloft. The plane needs to land straight (so
apply LEFT rudder to point the aircraft down the runway). It needs to
land with no drift (so apply RIGHT aileron to counteract the drift).
It's just regular crosswind correction, but you got surprised by
encountering a crosswind on touchdown.

Jose
--
The monkey turns the crank and thinks he's making the music.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

are you always drifting left?
is it always the same airplane?
is the gear straight? someone else may have twisted the gear in a landing
and the alignment is off
is the nose wheel canted to one side?

more back pressure will not put more weight on the wheels to stop the
skidding with brake application
aileron into the wind, not aggressive may help, get to aggressive and
depending on the winds/aircraft you could raise one main back off the ground

It would not be the best advice to say.. raise the flaps to get more braking
effect, but that is the placard in the Beech Sport/Sundowner/Sierra series.
Two many people with electric flaps and hydroelectric gear have raised the
gear on rollout and not the flaps. Raising Manual Flaps does help to "unload
the wing" and get more weight (braking action) on the mains. Always, never
touch gear/flap switches until clear of the runway and you can look at what
you touch.

BT

"Dan" wrote in message
ups.com...
All,

Occasionally, I find myself in the following situation when landing. I
am trying to figure out what I am doing wrong.

I fly over the numbers at the proper airspeed, and on the (VASI)
glideslope. I flare by putting the cowling to the horizon and holding
off unitl touchdown. After touchdown, I find the plane drifting to the
left, while the nose is pointing to the right. Applying further right
rudder seems to result in a squirrley/sliding feeling (not sure if I am
acutally sliding though, just afraid to push it any further). Applying
brakes at anything more than very slight pressure results in skidding.
At this point, I find myself rolling down the runway, unable to slow
down fast enough and trying to control the drift.

This could happen in little to no wind conditions. What am I doing
wrong? I'm not a beginner, but occasionally this happens and I can't
seem to figure it out.

Do I need to....

A. Crank in aggressive alieron to the right.
B. Apply lots of back-pressure to get more weight on the mains to allow
breaking.
C. Something else....?

Dan

The drift develops after I touchdown. If I am already drifting left,
left rudder would probably result in running off the runway....

Dan


Jose wrote:
After touchdown, I find the plane drifting to the
left, while the nose is pointing to the right. Applying further right
rudder seems to result in a squirrley/sliding feeling (not sure if I am
acutally sliding though, just afraid to push it any further).

Maybe you've picked up some wind. Surface winds are often different
from winds even slightly aloft. The plane needs to land straight (so
apply LEFT rudder to point the aircraft down the runway). It needs to
land with no drift (so apply RIGHT aileron to counteract the drift).
It's just regular crosswind correction, but you got surprised by
encountering a crosswind on touchdown.

Jose
--
The monkey turns the crank and thinks he's making the music.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

It doesn't happen that often, but it did last night. I am trying to
remember if it is always left, and actually I think it is. It is NOT
the same airplane. Had the problem in an Archer, Arrow, and Comanche.
- probably my technique.

Could I be unintentionally doing something with the rudder on
touchdown?

Dan

BTIZ wrote:
are you always drifting left?
is it always the same airplane?
is the gear straight? someone else may have twisted the gear in a landing
and the alignment is off
is the nose wheel canted to one side?

more back pressure will not put more weight on the wheels to stop the
skidding with brake application
aileron into the wind, not aggressive may help, get to aggressive and
depending on the winds/aircraft you could raise one main back off the ground

It would not be the best advice to say.. raise the flaps to get more braking
effect, but that is the placard in the Beech Sport/Sundowner/Sierra series.
Two many people with electric flaps and hydroelectric gear have raised the
gear on rollout and not the flaps. Raising Manual Flaps does help to "unload
the wing" and get more weight (braking action) on the mains. Always, never
touch gear/flap switches until clear of the runway and you can look at what
you touch.

BT

"Dan" wrote in message
ups.com...
All,

Occasionally, I find myself in the following situation when landing. I
am trying to figure out what I am doing wrong.

I fly over the numbers at the proper airspeed, and on the (VASI)
glideslope. I flare by putting the cowling to the horizon and holding
off unitl touchdown. After touchdown, I find the plane drifting to the
left, while the nose is pointing to the right. Applying further right
rudder seems to result in a squirrley/sliding feeling (not sure if I am
acutally sliding though, just afraid to push it any further). Applying
brakes at anything more than very slight pressure results in skidding.
At this point, I find myself rolling down the runway, unable to slow
down fast enough and trying to control the drift.

This could happen in little to no wind conditions. What am I doing
wrong? I'm not a beginner, but occasionally this happens and I can't
seem to figure it out.

Do I need to....

A. Crank in aggressive alieron to the right.
B. Apply lots of back-pressure to get more weight on the mains to allow
breaking.
C. Something else....?

Dan

Dan wrote:
All,

Occasionally, I find myself in the following situation when landing. I
am trying to figure out what I am doing wrong.

I fly over the numbers at the proper airspeed, and on the (VASI)
glideslope. I flare by putting the cowling to the horizon and holding
off unitl touchdown. After touchdown, I find the plane drifting to the
left, while the nose is pointing to the right. Applying further right
rudder seems to result in a squirrley/sliding feeling (not sure if I am
acutally sliding though, just afraid to push it any further). Applying
brakes at anything more than very slight pressure results in skidding.
At this point, I find myself rolling down the runway, unable to slow
down fast enough and trying to control the drift.

This could happen in little to no wind conditions. What am I doing
wrong? I'm not a beginner, but occasionally this happens and I can't
seem to figure it out.

Do I need to....

A. Crank in aggressive alieron to the right.
B. Apply lots of back-pressure to get more weight on the mains to allow
breaking.
C. Something else....?

Dan

If you are drifting left with the nose pointing to the right and the
wheels are firmly on the ground, I'd say your nosewheel is getting
jammed.

Dan wrote:
All,

Occasionally, I find myself in the following situation when landing. I
am trying to figure out what I am doing wrong.

I fly over the numbers at the proper airspeed, and on the (VASI)
glideslope. I flare by putting the cowling to the horizon and holding
off unitl touchdown. After touchdown, I find the plane drifting to the
left, while the nose is pointing to the right. Applying further right
rudder seems to result in a squirrley/sliding feeling (not sure if I am
acutally sliding though, just afraid to push it any further). Applying
brakes at anything more than very slight pressure results in skidding.
At this point, I find myself rolling down the runway, unable to slow
down fast enough and trying to control the drift.

This could happen in little to no wind conditions. What am I doing
wrong? I'm not a beginner, but occasionally this happens and I can't
seem to figure it out.

Do I need to....

A. Crank in aggressive alieron to the right.
B. Apply lots of back-pressure to get more weight on the mains to allow
breaking.
C. Something else....?

Dan

A disclaimer first, that I'm a post solo student [P S == Post Solo]. I
have
had similar (opposite) problems after touching down with the nose
pointing to the
left while the plane drifted to the right. My CFI found two things that
I was
doing uncontiously. one is the non-level movement of the yoke when
applying the
back-pressue while rounding out, and in my case, I was over-correcting
my
earlier tendancy of "pulling the yoke downward" action by raising the
left elbow
too much. Then stepped on the left rudder in reflex to "correct" that
-- resulting in
the nose pointing to the left while the plane drifted to the right.
Your problem could be the opposite of mine, i.e. your left elbow was
pulling down the
left alieron, or, maybe as the nose rose, it yawed to the left by the
same reason it
yawed to the left on takeoff with more power, and you used right rudder
to
correct it, instead of very slight right alieron in the round out. If
the later is true,
the wings were not very level before touching down.

I think you may be on to something here. So, what you are saying is
that in a calm wind, I might be unconciously adding left alieron in the
flare, and correcting with right rudder...

I think this acutally happens to me _more_ in calm wind situations.


P S wrote:


A disclaimer first, that I'm a post solo student [P S == Post Solo]. I
have
had similar (opposite) problems after touching down with the nose
pointing to the
left while the plane drifted to the right. My CFI found two things that
I was
doing uncontiously. one is the non-level movement of the yoke when
applying the
back-pressue while rounding out, and in my case, I was over-correcting
my
earlier tendancy of "pulling the yoke downward" action by raising the
left elbow
too much. Then stepped on the left rudder in reflex to "correct" that
-- resulting in
the nose pointing to the left while the plane drifted to the right.
Your problem could be the opposite of mine, i.e. your left elbow was
pulling down the
left alieron, or, maybe as the nose rose, it yawed to the left by the
same reason it
yawed to the left on takeoff with more power, and you used right rudder
to
correct it, instead of very slight right alieron in the round out. If
the later is true,
the wings were not very level before touching down.

Exactly. Your description of the problem sounded too familiar :-).

Dan wrote:
I think you may be on to something here. So, what you are saying is
that in a calm wind, I might be unconciously adding left alieron in the
flare, and correcting with right rudder...

I think this acutally happens to me _more_ in calm wind situations.


P S wrote:


A disclaimer first, that I'm a post solo student [P S == Post Solo]. I
have
had similar (opposite) problems after touching down with the nose
pointing to the
left while the plane drifted to the right. My CFI found two things that
I was
doing uncontiously. one is the non-level movement of the yoke when
applying the
back-pressue while rounding out, and in my case, I was over-correcting
my
earlier tendancy of "pulling the yoke downward" action by raising the
left elbow
too much. Then stepped on the left rudder in reflex to "correct" that
-- resulting in
the nose pointing to the left while the plane drifted to the right.
Your problem could be the opposite of mine, i.e. your left elbow was
pulling down the
left alieron, or, maybe as the nose rose, it yawed to the left by the
same reason it
yawed to the left on takeoff with more power, and you used right rudder
to
correct it, instead of very slight right alieron in the round out. If
the later is true,
the wings were not very level before touching down.

I am flaring with my left hand (right hand on the throttle), so
probably crank the yoke to the left a bit...

--Dan


P S wrote:
Exactly. Your description of the problem sounded too familiar :-).

Dan wrote:
I think you may be on to something here. So, what you are saying is
that in a calm wind, I might be unconciously adding left alieron in the
flare, and correcting with right rudder...

I think this acutally happens to me _more_ in calm wind situations.


P S wrote:


A disclaimer first, that I'm a post solo student [P S == Post Solo]. I
have
had similar (opposite) problems after touching down with the nose
pointing to the
left while the plane drifted to the right. My CFI found two things that
I was
doing uncontiously. one is the non-level movement of the yoke when
applying the
back-pressue while rounding out, and in my case, I was over-correcting
my
earlier tendancy of "pulling the yoke downward" action by raising the
left elbow
too much. Then stepped on the left rudder in reflex to "correct" that
-- resulting in
the nose pointing to the left while the plane drifted to the right.
Your problem could be the opposite of mine, i.e. your left elbow was
pulling down the
left alieron, or, maybe as the nose rose, it yawed to the left by the
same reason it
yawed to the left on takeoff with more power, and you used right rudder
to
correct it, instead of very slight right alieron in the round out. If
the later is true,
the wings were not very level before touching down.