Skydivers vs. Gliders?

A Skydiving company has approached airport management, wanting to open a
skydiving operation at Minden-Tahoe Airport, Nevada, USA. Minden, as you're
probably aware, is considered by many to be one of the true soaring Mecca,
with superb soaring conditions, beautiful scenery and much more. It also has
a mix of powered aircraft traffic including business jets, with over half
the airport operations being glider related.

There are a number of other airports in the US, and probably elsewhere, that
support both gliders and skydivers, though I'm not sure they have the same
number of operations was KMEV (60 to 70K per year). Safety, is a primary
concern, as is the potential for driving away soaring pilots.

If you have any experience, good or bad, in sharing an airport with
skydivers, please post.

all the best,
--
bumper ZZ (reverse all after @)
"Dare to be different . . . circle in sink."

People who throw themselves out of perfectly serviceable
aeroplanes at 15,000ft and then plummet almost vertically
at over 100mph for 14,000ft are an absolute menace.
If you are flying a glider or a light aircraft, you
will almost certainly not see them coming and they
have only very limited manoeuvrability to avoid you,
even if they do see you. There have been a number of
fatal collisions and very near misses between skydivers
and gliders in the UK and Europe.

One of the problems in the UK is that the Skydivers
won't talk to the gliding movement and guard their
'drop zones' like dogs in a manger, even though they
are often not being used.

If you can get them to agree to set times and to inform
pilots by radio or other means when they are about
to jump, there may not be too much of a problem. I
have flown at a site in Spain where the two sports
do liase and there didn't seem to be a problem combining
them there.

Derek Copeland

At 16:12 11 July 2006, Bumper wrote:
A Skydiving company has approached airport management,
wanting to open a
skydiving operation at Minden-Tahoe Airport, Nevada,
USA. Minden, as you're
probably aware, is considered by many to be one of
the true soaring Mecca,
with superb soaring conditions, beautiful scenery and
much more. It also has
a mix of powered aircraft traffic including business
jets, with over half
the airport operations being glider related.

There are a number of other airports in the US, and
probably elsewhere, that
support both gliders and skydivers, though I'm not
sure they have the same
number of operations was KMEV (60 to 70K per year).
Safety, is a primary
concern, as is the potential for driving away soaring
pilots.

If you have any experience, good or bad, in sharing
an airport with
skydivers, please post.

all the best,
--
bumper ZZ
'Dare to be different . . . circle in sink.'

This can be done safely and effectively provided, of course, that the
jump operations and glider pilots in the area are on the same frequency
and communicate diligently.

A jump operation coexisted with Estrella for some time but that was
long before I gave up skydiving and took my first gliding lesson there.
I never heard of any associated problems.

There is at least one airport in southern France that hosts (or did
host) major skydiving and soaring operations. There was a fatal
incident some time ago when a skydiver in freefall hit a glider,
directly over the airport.

~ted/2NO

bumper wrote:
A Skydiving company has approached airport management, wanting to open a
skydiving operation at Minden-Tahoe Airport, Nevada, USA. Minden, as you're
probably aware, is considered by many to be one of the true soaring Mecca,
with superb soaring conditions, beautiful scenery and much more. It also has
a mix of powered aircraft traffic including business jets, with over half
the airport operations being glider related.

There are a number of other airports in the US, and probably elsewhere, that
support both gliders and skydivers, though I'm not sure they have the same
number of operations was KMEV (60 to 70K per year). Safety, is a primary
concern, as is the potential for driving away soaring pilots.

If you have any experience, good or bad, in sharing an airport with
skydivers, please post.

Sharing the airport is not the problem. We share the Hollister airport
with a skydiving operation.

What matters is the location of the drop zone. Theirs is a good 7 miles
south of the airport and nowhere near terrain that we typically head for
when the lift is working.

Given the terrain around KMEV, I wonder where they'd like to drop. East
of the field toward the Pine Nuts? South of the field?

North and West both seem a bit more crowded.

Hopefully not near the Startbucks factory. That thermal saves my butt
when I fly there. :-)

Jeremy

bumper wrote:
A Skydiving company has approached airport management, wanting to open a
skydiving operation at Minden-Tahoe Airport, Nevada, USA. Minden, as you're
probably aware, is considered by many to be one of the true soaring Mecca,
with superb soaring conditions, beautiful scenery and much more. It also has
a mix of powered aircraft traffic including business jets, with over half
the airport operations being glider related.

There are a number of other airports in the US, and probably elsewhere, that
support both gliders and skydivers, though I'm not sure they have the same
number of operations was KMEV (60 to 70K per year). Safety, is a primary
concern, as is the potential for driving away soaring pilots.

If you have any experience, good or bad, in sharing an airport with
skydivers, please post.

all the best,

- If there is a financial aspect attached to it that will keep Minden
operational and you have no other funding options then yes, but
otherwise keep them out!
Its never safe watching parachuters crossing your final approach,
plus usually these drop zones have high amount of accidents.

I spent the weekend at a fly in with 30 piper cubs swarming about at
Lompoc with parachute operations going on. The drop zone is about 1/4
mile from the runway inside the pattern. I was amazed at the lack of
conflict. The prevailing wind is strong and down the runway so if the
skydivers get blown downwind they will not come over the airport. The
airport has an ILS and is 10 miles from Vandenberg. I think the safety
as always boils down to good communication and mutual respect. Not
always available everywhere. I think the Hollister model is a good
model for Minden.
Rodger R
Pescadero CA

Skydivers have the same right to use the airport and airspace that
glider pilots do.

Skydivers crossing runway approaches or overflying any runway below 500
feet are probably violating FARs but regardless this practice has been
prohibited at all of the 100 or so skydiving centers I've ever jumped
at. Jump operations get lots of FAA scrutiny and do not wish to
endanger their own existence.

And before anyone wags any more fingers at the "danger" of skydiving, I
highly suggest you examine the fatalities to participants ratio:
skydiving, about 30 per 100,000; soaring, about 45 per 100,000. We
should get our own house in order before we can go lecturing the
skydiving community about what is safe and what is not.

~ted/2NO

Bumper,

I flew at a private airfield that was mainly a jump
center and the gliders were just a little side business.
My time there was from about 1990 through about 1994.

When I started flying there, the jumpers used 182's
(also used for tow plane) and Twin Beech's. Then,
they moved up to Queen Air, then King Air, then CASA's.
As they were moving to CASA's, I changed airports.
Not because of the jumpers, but I wanted to move to
a club that was based on a much larger and more open
field.

Anyway, all we were flying then were 2-33's, an L-13,
and a 1-26. Basically, we were pretty much within
the area where the skydivers were since we didn't go
cross country. The gliders didn't have radios. We
just kept up of where the jumpers were by checking
to see where the jump plane was. If the jump plane
was on the ground, you were safe from any collision
from someone in free-fall: they were either on the
ground or under canopy. If they were under canopy,
they were easy to spot. We also knew each day where
the drop zone would be, based on the winds. Once the
jump plane started its climb out, again known by watchting
the field (remember, we weren't flying cross country,
but just around the airport), we knew to stay well
away from the jump zone.

The skydiving operation was, and probably still is,
one of the largest around, at least in the Southeast.
They lease out their King Airs, Twin Otters, and CASA's
to other jump operations.

We operated safely for the five years or so that I
flew there. I would think with radio equipped gliders
going cross country, there wouldn't be much problem
at all. Just get to know and understand each other's
operation and I think it will be fine.

The airport is North Raleigh (00NC) and the business
is Carolina Skydive (I think, it's been a while since
I've been there.)

You might find that there's usually a nice crowd of
pretty women at jump centers, too! I'm used to NO
women at our glider field. So, the scenery may improve
even more than it naturally is at Minden!

Ray Lovinggood
Carrboro, North Carolina, USA
LS1-d


At 16:12 11 July 2006, Bumper wrote:
A Skydiving company has approached airport management,
wanting to open a
skydiving operation at Minden-Tahoe Airport, Nevada,
USA. Minden, as you're
probably aware, is considered by many to be one of
the true soaring Mecca,
with superb soaring conditions, beautiful scenery and
much more. It also has
a mix of powered aircraft traffic including business
jets, with over half
the airport operations being glider related.

There are a number of other airports in the US, and
probably elsewhere, that
support both gliders and skydivers, though I'm not
sure they have the same
number of operations was KMEV (60 to 70K per year).
Safety, is a primary
concern, as is the potential for driving away soaring
pilots.

If you have any experience, good or bad, in sharing
an airport with
skydivers, please post.

all the best,
--
bumper ZZ
'Dare to be different . . . circle in sink.'

Ray, I believe you're referring to Carolina Sky Sports, NE of Raleigh,
known by skydivers as simply "Louisburg" ...

I've flown at two gliderports that also had skydiver operations. One
used good radio procedures and I found it no problem to keep an eye out
for the jump plane - they'd announce approaching the drop area. The
other used a drop area well away from glider operations and was never a
problem.

At least skydivers are well trained and have a good incentive to avoid
flying into a glider.

It's ultralights I hate - the flying equivalent of snowmobiles!