Stepping back from ANR

On Sat, 26 Aug 2006 23:41:41 GMT, B A R R Y
wrote in
:

The true value of the money I spent
on the expensive set was unbelievably apparent.

There is no question that Active Noise Reduction headsets offer
superior intelligibility and less stress than passive headsets.
However, I doubt the difference in cost among ANR headsets is
indicative of their performance.

"Larry Dighera" wrote in message

There is no question that Active Noise Reduction headsets offer
superior intelligibility and less stress than passive headsets.

Query: I haven't flown a light plane since 1981, so I've never had the
occasion to use ANR. When in use in a typical light single like a 172,
etc., can you hear the engine, or the airflow, or even your passenger
speaking (without benefit of an intercom)?

"John Gaquin" wrote:

There is no question that Active Noise Reduction headsets offer
superior intelligibility and less stress than passive headsets.

Query: I haven't flown a light plane since 1981, so I've never had the
occasion to use ANR. When in use in a typical light single like a 172,
etc., can you hear the engine, or the airflow, or even your passenger
speaking (without benefit of an intercom)?

ANR mutes a lot of the low freq. noise. It's kind of like listening to the
world through speakers with the bass turned all the way down.

It doesn't suppress the sound of a human voice in the cabin much; it may
even make it more intelligible. You can still hear the engine, but if you
couldn't hear the airflow with a passive set, you won't hear it with an
active one either.

--
Dan
C172RG at BFM

ANR. When in use in a typical light single like a 172,
etc., can you hear the engine, or the airflow, or even your passenger
speaking (without benefit of an intercom)?

Yes.

ANR reduces the background noise. Anything different from the
background noise is not reduced (anywhere near as much). And even if it
were, your ear becomes more sensitive because it's no longer assaulted
by the din of the background noise.

Jose
--
The monkey turns the crank and thinks he's making the music.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

"John Gaquin" wrote in message
news

Query: I haven't flown a light plane since 1981, so I've never had
the occasion to use ANR. When in use in a typical light single like
a 172, etc., can you hear the engine, or the airflow, or even your
passenger speaking (without benefit of an intercom)?

I can hear the crinkle of un/folding my charts while in flight. I've also
heard fingers snapping.

--
John T
http://sage1solutions.com/TknoFlyer
Reduce spam. Use Sender Policy Framework: http://spf.pobox.com
____________________

DC claims additional 17-22dB noise attenuation with ENC turned on;
regular foam earplugs are said to do around 32dB of attenuation. Seems
even better than ENC, and hell of a lot cheaper, too... Does anybody
have any opinion on that?


Andrey


John T wrote:
"John Gaquin" wrote in message
news

Query: I haven't flown a light plane since 1981, so I've never had
the occasion to use ANR. When in use in a typical light single like
a 172, etc., can you hear the engine, or the airflow, or even your
passenger speaking (without benefit of an intercom)?

I can hear the crinkle of un/folding my charts while in flight. I've also
heard fingers snapping.

"Andrey Serbinenko" wrote in message
...
DC claims additional 17-22dB noise attenuation with ENC turned on;
regular foam earplugs are said to do around 32dB of attenuation. Seems
even better than ENC, and hell of a lot cheaper, too... Does anybody
have any opinion on that?

The active electronic noise canceling works by blocking out "predictable"
repetitive noises, like the beat of the pressure wave coming from the prop,
and the bark of the exhaust. It does not do well on a quick snap, or non
repetitive crackling of charts, or on the changing sounds of speech.

Foam ear plugs work by blocking any, and everything. That means you have to
raise the volume of the communications output, to be able to hear the tower,
or other people talking. That could possible result in over driving the
speakers or the amp driving the speakers, resulting in difficulty
understanding transmissions. That is a bad thing.

Some people that have posted here do regularly wear foam plugs under
headset, and have good results. It seems to be more popular with the open
cockpit group.

I wear foam plugs under a headphone radio while I'm mowing the grass, or
weedeating. It works for me, in those applications. Sure, the music is not
quite as clear, but it doesn't really matter. What does matter is that I
can't stand being blasted by the noise of the mower, or even worse, the
music turned up loud enough to be heard over the din of the mower. g
--
Jim in NC

On Tue, 29 Aug 2006 19:29:24 -0400, "Morgans"
wrote:


"Andrey Serbinenko" wrote in message
.. .
DC claims additional 17-22dB noise attenuation with ENC turned on;
regular foam earplugs are said to do around 32dB of attenuation. Seems
even better than ENC, and hell of a lot cheaper, too... Does anybody
have any opinion on that?

The active electronic noise canceling works by blocking out "predictable"

It shouldn't have to be predictable, or repetitive.
ANRs listen to the ambient noise. They amplify it to a given level and
send it through the head set so it arrives at your ear 180 degrees out
of phase with the noise that leaks through.

repetitive noises, like the beat of the pressure wave coming from the prop,
and the bark of the exhaust. It does not do well on a quick snap, or non
repetitive crackling of charts, or on the changing sounds of speech.

Mine does very well with frequencies from about 3,000 cycles down. If
I want to hear the person next to me, they better be talking into a
mike, or I have to lift one side of the head set to hear them. Nor do
I hear much out of the charts. Some but not much. However due to the
efficient cancellation of the low frequency noise I can hear the
charts. With the ANR function off I can not hear them at all.

Other things I can hear with the ANRs on are the engine accessories.
All sorts of things become audible that are not with the ANRs off.


Foam ear plugs work by blocking any, and everything. That means you have to
raise the volume of the communications output, to be able to hear the tower,
or other people talking. That could possible result in over driving the
speakers or the amp driving the speakers, resulting in difficulty
understanding transmissions. That is a bad thing.

Some people that have posted here do regularly wear foam plugs under
headset, and have good results. It seems to be more popular with the open
cockpit group.

Foam ear plugs are not very effective, but they do have some
attenuation. The newer expandable ones are better but still no where
near as good as a passive head set which is improved by the addition
of active noise canceling.

When I was shooting competitively (Trap shooting) I wore passive ear
muffs (same as the passive head set without the mike), plus I wore
custom molded ear plugs.

The problem with ear plugs alone, be they soft or molded is conduction
of sound by the mastoid bone behind the ear. Even with the most
effective silicone, molded ear plug I could easily hear people
speaking that I could not hear with just the ear muffs which cover
the mastoid bone.

The small head sets do not work at all for me. I flew right seat in a
twin two hours each way. The pilot was an ATP who told me I didn't
need my ANRs as he had a spare set of the ones they used on commercial
flights. With the tiny head set I could not hear the radios well
enough to even handle the communications which was my reason for
going. (GAWD but it was noisy in that Aztec) We were IFR and had
planned on both of us working. Unfortunately I let him convince me
and left my head set in the bag in my car.


I wear foam plugs under a headphone radio while I'm mowing the grass, or
weedeating. It works for me, in those applications. Sure, the music is not
quite as clear, but it doesn't really matter. What does matter is that I
can't stand being blasted by the noise of the mower, or even worse, the
music turned up loud enough to be heard over the din of the mower. g

Get one of those expensive ANRs and plug your radio or player into
that. I've tried wearing ANRs designed for listening only and they
were expensive ones, but I could not hear the radio over the riding
mower noise. Yet the mower is not loud enough to normally bother with
ear muffs or plugs. The weed whacker OTOH...

I've been tempted to wire up my Telex head set so I can listen to the
stereo as well as my HT. I think that would provide enough
attenuation to be useful.


Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com

Andrey,

Does anybody
have any opinion on that?


Yup: Too little data. What method was employed to measure these values?
At what frequencies?

I strongly recommend reading Lightspeed's ANR 1o1 tutorial on their
website. These advertised values mean pretty much zip.

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

Yup: Too little data. What method was employed to measure these values?
At what frequencies?

If I remember correctly, there was a frequency/attenuation chart on the
back of some foam earplugs carton I saw once in a drug store. I'm sure
ANR manufacturers have plenty of charts for their products. So, data is
obtainable, at least theoretically. But that doesn't mean much, since
noise perception is a very psychological thing (think of all those crazy
psycho-acoustic models for Hi-Fi audio noise reduction), and you cannot
really go by "more decibels = better noise cancelling" principle all the time.

Unfortunately, I cannot make comparisons myself, as I don't currently
own an ANR set. I tried passive vs. passive+foam, and the difference was
drastic. But I can't really tell how much I'm losing due to lack of selectivity
of ANR without trying one. Thus the question.



Andrey