Do you have to solo to get current?

As we all know, you can't carry a passenger unless you are current. But if
two pilots get in an aircraft with dual controls, can either of them really
be considered a passenger? You can log PIC from either seat.

Lets say, I have a PPL but am not current. My best friend has a PPL but is
not current. Both of us have a current medical? Is it legal for both of us to
get in an aircraft with dual controls, at the same time, shoot 6 take offs
and landings, 3 each, and log ourselves as current and split the flying time
in our logs?

Would be both absolutely have to have a current medical?

He is an attorney and says the way he reads the regs, that it's not exactly
clear. I myself don't know, but thought the group might enjoy debating the
question.

Along the same lines, if a PPL *is* current. Can he go for insurance check
ride with an instructor that is not, or doesn't have a current medilcal?


--
Skidder

Someone is the pilot in command, and he is not current. He may not
carry a PX. Kick the other guy out, do your three landings to a full
stop.

Now even though you're current, he is not, is he? So you stand around
while he makes himself whole in the eyes of the FAA.

Now go forth and sin no more!




On Mar 7, 8:10 pm, "Skidder" wrote:
As we all know, you can't carry a passenger unless you are current. But if
two pilots get in an aircraft with dual controls, can either of them really
be considered a passenger? You can log PIC from either seat.

Lets say, I have a PPL but am not current. My best friend has a PPL but is
not current. Both of us have a current medical? Is it legal for both of us to
get in an aircraft with dual controls, at the same time, shoot 6 take offs
and landings, 3 each, and log ourselves as current and split the flying time
in our logs?

Would be both absolutely have to have a current medical?

He is an attorney and says the way he reads the regs, that it's not exactly
clear. I myself don't know, but thought the group might enjoy debating the
question.

Along the same lines, if a PPL *is* current. Can he go for insurance check
ride with an instructor that is not, or doesn't have a current medilcal?

--
Skidder

On 3/7/2007 7:15:18 PM, "Tony" wrote:
Someone is the pilot in command, and he is not current. He may not
carry a PX. Kick the other guy out, do your three landings to a full
stop.

Now even though you're current, he is not, is he? So you stand around
while he makes himself whole in the eyes of the FAA.

Now go forth and sin no more!



Can you bottom post, and quote a reference in the regs??

--
Skidder

There is no requirement for a CFI to be flight or medical current if the PPL
is pilot in command.

Jim



"Skidder" wrote in message
...

Along the same lines, if a PPL *is* current. Can he go for insurance check
ride with an instructor that is not, or doesn't have a current medilcal?

Skidder wrote:
As we all know, you can't carry a passenger unless you are current. But if
two pilots get in an aircraft with dual controls, can either of them really
be considered a passenger? You can log PIC from either seat.

Lets say, I have a PPL but am not current. My best friend has a PPL but is
not current. Both of us have a current medical? Is it legal for both of us to
get in an aircraft with dual controls, at the same time, shoot 6 take offs
and landings, 3 each, and log ourselves as current and split the flying time
in our logs?

Would be both absolutely have to have a current medical?

He is an attorney and says the way he reads the regs, that it's not exactly
clear. I myself don't know, but thought the group might enjoy debating the
question.

Along the same lines, if a PPL *is* current. Can he go for insurance check
ride with an instructor that is not, or doesn't have a current medilcal?

I don't know about the first case, but for the second, the answer is
yes.

The pilot is PIC and it doesn't matter what the other person is there
for as long as he doesn't have to PIC to do it, like give IFR training
in actual IFR to a non-IFR rated pilot.

--
Jim Pennino

Remove .spam.sux to reply.

I hate bottom posting... but..

"Skidder" wrote in message
...
On 3/7/2007 7:15:18 PM, "Tony" wrote:
Someone is the pilot in command, and he is not current. He may not
carry a PX. Kick the other guy out, do your three landings to a full
stop.

Now even though you're current, he is not, is he? So you stand around
while he makes himself whole in the eyes of the FAA.

Now go forth and sin no more!



Can you bottom post, and quote a reference in the regs??

--
Skidder

61.57, PIC needs 3 landings in 90 days to carry pax

neither one of you has 3 landings.. neither one of you can be PIC

one is a PAX, the other is PIC, non current PIC cannot carry PAX

go solo.

As for second pilot... to "act as PIC" when not at the controls, the
aircraft must require a second pilot.
Unless he is under the hood for his touch and goes, the aircraft does not
require a second pilot to ACT as PIC.

He needs to go solo too... other wise, who ever flew first and is now
current, is really only only a PAX as a second pilot is not required in this
situation. (assuming ASEL)

second pilot goes solo

BT

On Mar 7, 8:10 pm, "Skidder" wrote:
As we all know, you can't carry a passenger unless you are current. But if
two pilots get in an aircraft with dual controls, can either of them really
be considered a passenger? You can log PIC from either seat.

Lets say, I have a PPL but am not current. My best friend has a PPL but is
not current. Both of us have a current medical? Is it legal for both of us to
get in an aircraft with dual controls, at the same time, shoot 6 take offs
and landings, 3 each, and log ourselves as current and split the flying time
in our logs?

No. The requirement is that the PIC of the flight has to be current.
There is only one PIC and the other pilot will be considered a pax.
However, a "pax" can fly the airplane without being the PIC. If one
pilot is current, he will be the PIC for that flight. The other pilot
could do three touch and goes as sole manipulator of the controls and
become current. However, the first pilot is the PIC of the flight and
therefore responsible for the safety of the flight. If the manipulator
of the controls screws up and crashes the airplane, the PIC will be
responsible. I am personally not a big fan of letting somebody else
land the airplane while I am the PIC...... At least until I become a
CFI.

Would be both absolutely have to have a current medical?

Only the PIC for the flight

He is an attorney and says the way he reads the regs, that it's not exactly
clear. I myself don't know, but thought the group might enjoy debating the
question.

Along the same lines, if a PPL *is* current. Can he go for insurance check
ride with an instructor that is not, or doesn't have a current medilcal?

The CFI does not need a medical nor to be current if he is not the PIC
of the flight.



--
Skidder

On Mar 7, 5:10 pm, "Skidder" wrote:
As we all know, you can't carry a passenger unless you are current. But if
two pilots get in an aircraft with dual controls, can either of them really
be considered a passenger? You can log PIC from either seat.

You've gotten pretty good advice here. The key is that someone must
serve as PIC. Interestingly, I had about a 1/2 hour conversation with
Lynch before he retired from the FAA. My question to him was, does a
MEI need to be current to give instruction to a non-ME pilot? The core
of the question is whether or not a student is considered a pax to the
CFI. His answer is that students are not pax when receiving
instructions and that CFI's do not need to be 61.57 current to give
instruction and serve as PIC. Not sure if every FSDO would agree but I
thought it was an interesting point. This is a frequent problem
because MEI's almost *NEVER* get any "sole manipulator" time on
landings unless they fly outside of the instructing environment. I
would estimate that at least 75% of all active MEIs can not maintain
61.57 currency.

-Robert, CFII

On Wed, 7 Mar 2007 17:10:05 -0800, Skidder wrote
(in article ):

As we all know, you can't carry a passenger unless you are current. But if
two pilots get in an aircraft with dual controls, can either of them really
be considered a passenger? You can log PIC from either seat.

Lets say, I have a PPL but am not current. My best friend has a PPL but is
not current. Both of us have a current medical? Is it legal for both of us to
get in an aircraft with dual controls, at the same time, shoot 6 take offs
and landings, 3 each, and log ourselves as current and split the flying time
in our logs?


It depends. First of all, you are misreading the reg. You have to be current
in the aircraft to act as PIC of an aircraft carrying passengers. Required
crewmembers are not passengers. Are both pilots required to fly the airplane?
If not, the one who is not acting PIC is a passenger.

Would be both absolutely have to have a current medical?


Whoever is acting as PIC has to have a medical. If a pilot has no medical,
then another pilot who has a medical has to go with him and act as PIC, so a
pilot with a medical becomes a required crewmember, not a passenger. There
could be some debate as to whether the guy without the medical is a required
crewmember, however. If neither pilot is qualified to act as PIC, then they
cannot fly.

Let us put it this way: What do you think the FAA will say if there is an
incident and neither pilot was current in the airplane and only one of them
had a current medical? Can you say "emergency revocation?"

He is an attorney and says the way he reads the regs, that it's not exactly
clear. I myself don't know, but thought the group might enjoy debating the
question.

Along the same lines, if a PPL *is* current. Can he go for insurance check
ride with an instructor that is not, or doesn't have a current medilcal?

Yes, at least as far as the medical goes. The instructor does not need to act
as PIC if the pilot is qualified to be PIC. Even so, the instructor still
gets to log the time as PIC, as does the pilot.

However, an instructor must be qualified and current in an aircraft that he
is giving instruction in. The instructor actually flies on the basis of his
commercial certificate, not his instructor certificate. Instructor
certificates do not confer flight privileges in and of themselves. Thus, he
can only instruct in those aircraft listed on both his commercial and
instructor certificates, and then only if he is current in them. A classic
example frequently asked by examiners and on instructor renewal exams is
whether an instructor can give instruction in a single-engine seaplane. His
commercial certificate says, "Airplane single and multiengine land,
instrument airplane." His instructor certificate says "Airplane single and
multiengine; instrument airplane." The correct answer is that the instructor
may not give instruction in a seaplane, because the commercial certificate is
limited to land planes. If the instructor gets a commercial seaplane
certificate then he is good to go.

Similarly, an instructor may not give instruction in a tailwheel airplane
unless he has a tailwheel signoff. The moment he gets the signoff he can
instruct in tailwheel airplanes without getting a new instructor certificate.
Same goes for other signoffs such as high performance or pressurized planes.
Since there is no instructor certificate in blimps, any commercial blimp
pilot may give instruction.

So, an instructor may give instruction without a medical, but he may not give
instruction in an aircraft that he is not allowed to fly at a commercial
level. That means he has to be current in that aircraft IN ORDER TO GIVE
INSTRUCTION. BUT:

If a pilot wants to act as PIC while an instructor gets his landings current,
that is another matter. As long as the pilot is qualified to act as PIC then
he can do so for the benefit of the instructor. You let the instructor get
current on his landings, then the instructor starts giving instruction for
the insurance check ride. That is done all the time.

--
Waddling Eagle
World Famous Flight Instructor

On Mar 7, 5:10 pm, "Skidder" wrote:

He is an attorney and says the way he reads the regs, that it's not exactly
clear. I myself don't know, but thought the group might enjoy debating the
question.

This makes the post sound like trolling. The attorney you asked
certainly has no experience with FAA regs because the regs are very
clear in the case you pointed out. If you are flying a real plane I
recommend joining AOPA (www.aopa.org), they answer these questions
everyday from student pilots.

-Robert