Growth in soaring

A question often asked is "Why has the glider activity declined?" In
1975 we would make about 150 flights on a Sat & Sun. Nothing like that
now but we had our best year 2006 in a long time. The decline (I
believe) is the competition for disposable time Vegas is many times
larger, Indian Casinos abound. Water craft, off road vehicles etc all
compete.
A well known ride operator told me that 1800gliderrides expected to
sell FOUR MILLION in rides in 2007. All sold on the internet. They
have no operations of their own, but have about 900 domain names, most
of them the same. USE CAUTION. fred

I don't think that casinos, watercrafts or off road vehicles compete
with soaring. The decline in soaring is perfectly correlated with the
birth of hang gliding and later paragliding. I am often puzzled about
the amount of effort put into trying to recruit youth into soaring.
Our true market is the middle age and not youth. I think it is largely
a waste of efforts to try to attract youth. It is very hard to compete
with hang gliding and paragliding, which appeals much more to
youngsters who are actually interested in aviation due to their low
cost, simplicity and quick learning. I dare to assume that most
youngsters which are attracted to gliders are those who are mostly
interested in a career in aviation.
The true market is middle aged power pilots and veterans hang/para
glider pilots who are ready to expand their horizon and can afford
the cost and time involved. I don't think enough effort is given to
market our sport to this segment, especially not to the hang gliding
and paragliding world (where I came from). Just my humble opinion.

As for 1800skyride.com and similar domains, they are a big scam
targeting all the aviation ride business and causes serious problems
to our ride operators. My club succedded in scaring them away from
offerring rides in our area, hopefully others will follow suit. Check
out the counter site
http://www.glidersailplanerides.com/ and spread the word.

Ramy


On Mar 16, 11:28 am, "fred" wrote:
A question often asked is "Why has the glider activity declined?" In
1975 we would make about 150 flights on a Sat & Sun. Nothing like that
now but we had our best year 2006 in a long time. The decline (I
believe) is the competition for disposable time Vegas is many times
larger, Indian Casinos abound. Water craft, off road vehicles etc all
compete.
A well known ride operator told me that 1800gliderrides expected to
sell FOUR MILLION in rides in 2007. All sold on the internet. They
have no operations of their own, but have about 900 domain names, most
of them the same. USE CAUTION. fred

I started soaring about 3 years ago. I'm in my mid 50s and have had my
private pilots license for about 10 years. I ended up flying gliders after
having a heart bypass that made it too much of a hassle to keep my medical.

Flying gliders is a lot more fun for me than power flying ever was. I
totally agree that middle aged pilots are a big opportunity for the sport.
I tried to get my son interested in gliders, but he was much more interested
in power flying. I suspect that in 10 - 15 years, he'll get bored with $100
hamburger runs and discover the thrill of gliding too.

Mike Schumann

"Ramy" wrote in message
oups.com...
I don't think that casinos, watercrafts or off road vehicles compete
with soaring. The decline in soaring is perfectly correlated with the
birth of hang gliding and later paragliding. I am often puzzled about
the amount of effort put into trying to recruit youth into soaring.
Our true market is the middle age and not youth. I think it is largely
a waste of efforts to try to attract youth. It is very hard to compete
with hang gliding and paragliding, which appeals much more to
youngsters who are actually interested in aviation due to their low
cost, simplicity and quick learning. I dare to assume that most
youngsters which are attracted to gliders are those who are mostly
interested in a career in aviation.
The true market is middle aged power pilots and veterans hang/para
glider pilots who are ready to expand their horizon and can afford
the cost and time involved. I don't think enough effort is given to
market our sport to this segment, especially not to the hang gliding
and paragliding world (where I came from). Just my humble opinion.

As for 1800skyride.com and similar domains, they are a big scam
targeting all the aviation ride business and causes serious problems
to our ride operators. My club succedded in scaring them away from
offerring rides in our area, hopefully others will follow suit. Check
out the counter site
http://www.glidersailplanerides.com/ and spread the word.

Ramy


On Mar 16, 11:28 am, "fred" wrote:
A question often asked is "Why has the glider activity declined?" In
1975 we would make about 150 flights on a Sat & Sun. Nothing like that
now but we had our best year 2006 in a long time. The decline (I
believe) is the competition for disposable time Vegas is many times
larger, Indian Casinos abound. Water craft, off road vehicles etc all
compete.
A well known ride operator told me that 1800gliderrides expected to
sell FOUR MILLION in rides in 2007. All sold on the internet. They
have no operations of their own, but have about 900 domain names, most
of them the same. USE CAUTION. fred





--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

On Mar 16, 5:32 pm, "Ramy" wrote:
I don't think that casinos, watercrafts or off road vehicles compete
with soaring. The decline in soaring is perfectly correlated with the
birth of hang gliding and later paragliding. I am often puzzled about
the amount of effort put into trying to recruit youth into soaring.
Our true market is the middle age and not youth. I think it is largely
a waste of efforts to try to attract youth. It is very hard to compete
with hang gliding and paragliding, which appeals much more to
youngsters who are actually interested in aviation due to their low
cost, simplicity and quick learning. I dare to assume that most
youngsters which are attracted to gliders are those who are mostly
interested in a career in aviation.
The true market is middle aged power pilots and veterans hang/para
glider pilots who are ready to expand their horizon and can afford
the cost and time involved. I don't think enough effort is given to
market our sport to this segment, especially not to the hang gliding
and paragliding world (where I came from). Just my humble opinion.

As for 1800skyride.com and similar domains, they are a big scam
targeting all the aviation ride business and causes serious problems
to our ride operators. My club succedded in scaring them away from
offerring rides in our area, hopefully others will follow suit. Check
out the counter sitehttp://www.glidersailplanerides.com/and spread the word.

Ramy

On Mar 16, 11:28 am, "fred" wrote:



A question often asked is "Why has the glider activity declined?" In
1975 we would make about 150 flights on a Sat & Sun. Nothing like that
now but we had our best year 2006 in a long time. The decline (I
believe) is the competition for disposable time Vegas is many times
larger, Indian Casinos abound. Water craft, off road vehicles etc all
compete.
A well known ride operator told me that 1800gliderrides expected to
sell FOUR MILLION in rides in 2007. All sold on the internet. They
have no operations of their own, but have about 900 domain names, most
of them the same. USE CAUTION. fred- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

In my humble opinion, one reason soaring does not appeal to too many
young kids (14 and up) is that the concept of having to work for
something before reaping a benefit becomes more and more alien to
them. The principle of 'instant gratification' is all too common
today. How long does it take to go from zero to solo in a glider? An
entire season? Sit in front of a computer and you can figure out a new
game or even a flight simulator in a few hours.
Also, at least in the US, power rules. In the mind of most youngsters,
if it doesn't go 'wawarooom', it's not worth looking at. You may
impress the chicks by telling them you drive a souped up rice-cooker,
but not by telling them you fly something that doesn't even have an
engine.
Also, look around at your avarage 'glider field USA' and then put
yourself into the shoes of a young kid. Would you want to hang around
with guys/gals 3-5 times your own age? Certainly not! Operations like
Caesar Creek in OH or Harris Hill in NY are the shining exception.
They have very active youth group under great and dedicated
leadership.

Just my 2 cents worth.

Uli Neumann

A well known ride operator told me that 1800gliderrides expected to
sell FOUR MILLION in rides in 2007. All sold on the internet. They
have no operations of their own, but have about 900 domain names, most
of them the same. USE CAUTION. fred

We had a operator here in Australia they had taken the monies but were in
receivership and will still taking bookings at a revamped redirected
website.

A few clubs and people got burnt.

I use a affiliate program see http://www.mals.net/gliderjoyflights.htm

Most the clubs have signed with the programs who are signed to the affiliate
program I use.

Mal

These are simple overviews. With most programs, the devil's in the
details, so you may need to contact someone to really understand how
these are implemented.

Regarding youth, can't speak to commercial operations, but Mile High
Gliding in Boulder has had some success. http://www.milehighgliding.com/colorado/mhyga.htm

Some SSA chapters have had very successful, on-going youth programs.
Youth involvement is structured on a value-added, performance based
program.
http://www.texassoaring.org Youth Program (about 35 total involved Feb
2006, including a then 17-year old tow pilot)
http://www.harrishillsoaring.org/ Junior program (some good video
links in RAS a while back)

Scholarship programs
http://www.tidewatersoaring.org/html/about_tss.html Tidewater Soaring
Foundation provides flight training scholarships.
http://tucsonsoaring.org/ Scholarship program is no longer active,
but when implemented caused a forty plus member jump.

All of the above have a common aspect. The organizations are, or are
aligned with, 501c(3) charitable, educational non-profit
organizations. There are other programs.

If you are prepared for growth and targeting the 45-year old PSEL
pilot market, contact Larry Touhino about how he's been marketing
soaring with a glider pilots ground school and using the SSA
Introductory membership.
http://www.ocsoaring.org/norobots/club_officers.htm
(sorry Larry, if your phone rings off the hook, but you should write
it up)

Philadelphia Glider Council sold the 'excitement' of soaring at the
AOPA convention a few years ago, which they say was very fruitful.
http://www.pgcsoaring.org/

Or if you're outreach is to the general public
Another approach that seemed pretty successful for introducing people
to soaring was done by Sylvania Soaring Adventures
http://www.soarmidwest.com/ They listed in a continuing education
catalog with a Chicago school. The package included an hour ground
school, lunch, and a flight lesson. The school charged $100/person
for the listing and registration. The FBO package was $100. So
people were willing to pay $200 and drive two hours to experience
this. The first day 20 showed up and they had to cancel their normal
students to accommodate everyone, so they put a limit of 6 per day on
subsequent registrations. I have no idea what their capture rate was
or if they've continued this.

Surely there are similar 'marketing' opportunities near you.
Personally, I recommend a three-lesson package. One soaring flight
is needed to set the hook, single sled rides seldom do. The first
flight is often a blur.

It's the money. Lowering the cost of entry by 50-70% will open the
door to a lot more potential pilots. There are a few winches coming
online around the country. I heard at the SSA convention that the
one that migrated to New York has been very popular. A couple more
are due this spring and there's are secret gathering on deck.

Frank Whiteley


On Mar 16, 4:48 pm, "Mike Schumann" mike-nos...@traditions-
nospam.com wrote:
I started soaring about 3 years ago. I'm in my mid 50s and have had my
private pilots license for about 10 years. I ended up flying gliders after
having a heart bypass that made it too much of a hassle to keep my medical.

Flying gliders is a lot more fun for me than power flying ever was. I
totally agree that middle aged pilots are a big opportunity for the sport.
I tried to get my son interested in gliders, but he was much more interested
in power flying. I suspect that in 10 - 15 years, he'll get bored with $100
hamburger runs and discover the thrill of gliding too.

Mike Schumann

"Ramy" wrote in message

oups.com...



I don't think that casinos, watercrafts or off road vehicles compete
with soaring. The decline in soaring is perfectly correlated with the
birth of hang gliding and later paragliding. I am often puzzled about
the amount of effort put into trying to recruit youth into soaring.
Our true market is the middle age and not youth. I think it is largely
a waste of efforts to try to attract youth. It is very hard to compete
with hang gliding and paragliding, which appeals much more to
youngsters who are actually interested in aviation due to their low
cost, simplicity and quick learning. I dare to assume that most
youngsters which are attracted to gliders are those who are mostly
interested in a career in aviation.
The true market is middle aged power pilots and veterans hang/para
glider pilots who are ready to expand their horizon and can afford
the cost and time involved. I don't think enough effort is given to
market our sport to this segment, especially not to the hang gliding
and paragliding world (where I came from). Just my humble opinion.

As for 1800skyride.com and similar domains, they are a big scam
targeting all the aviation ride business and causes serious problems
to our ride operators. My club succedded in scaring them away from
offerring rides in our area, hopefully others will follow suit. Check
out the counter site
http://www.glidersailplanerides.com/and spread the word.

Ramy

On Mar 16, 11:28 am, "fred" wrote:
A question often asked is "Why has the glider activity declined?" In
1975 we would make about 150 flights on a Sat & Sun. Nothing like that
now but we had our best year 2006 in a long time. The decline (I
believe) is the competition for disposable time Vegas is many times
larger, Indian Casinos abound. Water craft, off road vehicles etc all
compete.
A well known ride operator told me that 1800gliderrides expected to
sell FOUR MILLION in rides in 2007. All sold on the internet. They
have no operations of their own, but have about 900 domain names, most
of them the same. USE CAUTION. fred

--
Posted via a free Usenet account fromhttp://www.teranews.com

On Mar 16, 8:42 pm, "GM" wrote:
On Mar 16, 5:32 pm, "Ramy" wrote:



I don't think that casinos, watercrafts or off road vehicles compete
with soaring. The decline in soaring is perfectly correlated with the
birth of hang gliding and later paragliding. I am often puzzled about
the amount of effort put into trying to recruit youth into soaring.
Our true market is the middle age and not youth. I think it is largely
a waste of efforts to try to attract youth. It is very hard to compete
with hang gliding and paragliding, which appeals much more to
youngsters who are actually interested in aviation due to their low
cost, simplicity and quick learning. I dare to assume that most
youngsters which are attracted to gliders are those who are mostly
interested in a career in aviation.
The true market is middle aged power pilots and veterans hang/para
glider pilots who are ready to expand their horizon and can afford
the cost and time involved. I don't think enough effort is given to
market our sport to this segment, especially not to the hang gliding
and paragliding world (where I came from). Just my humble opinion.

As for 1800skyride.com and similar domains, they are a big scam
targeting all the aviation ride business and causes serious problems
to our ride operators. My club succedded in scaring them away from
offerring rides in our area, hopefully others will follow suit. Check
out the counter sitehttp://www.glidersailplanerides.com/andspread the word.

Ramy

On Mar 16, 11:28 am, "fred" wrote:

A question often asked is "Why has the glider activity declined?" In
1975 we would make about 150 flights on a Sat & Sun. Nothing like that
now but we had our best year 2006 in a long time. The decline (I
believe) is the competition for disposable time Vegas is many times
larger, Indian Casinos abound. Water craft, off road vehicles etc all
compete.
A well known ride operator told me that 1800gliderrides expected to
sell FOUR MILLION in rides in 2007. All sold on the internet. They
have no operations of their own, but have about 900 domain names, most
of them the same. USE CAUTION. fred- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

In my humble opinion, one reason soaring does not appeal to too many
young kids (14 and up) is that the concept of having to work for
something before reaping a benefit becomes more and more alien to
them. The principle of 'instant gratification' is all too common
today. How long does it take to go from zero to solo in a glider? An
entire season? Sit in front of a computer and you can figure out a new
game or even a flight simulator in a few hours.
Also, at least in the US, power rules. In the mind of most youngsters,
if it doesn't go 'wawarooom', it's not worth looking at. You may
impress the chicks by telling them you drive a souped up rice-cooker,
but not by telling them you fly something that doesn't even have an
engine.
Also, look around at your avarage 'glider field USA' and then put
yourself into the shoes of a young kid. Would you want to hang around
with guys/gals 3-5 times your own age? Certainly not! Operations like
Caesar Creek in OH or Harris Hill in NY are the shining exception.
They have very active youth group under great and dedicated
leadership.

Just my 2 cents worth.

Uli Neumann

Uli, you are correct that there must be more than one or two youth to
be involved with to keep it interesting. That's were strategic
planning comes in. In any endeavor, planning saves hugely on the back
end, but more often someone will just leap at implementing something,
without having done appropriate research. It may sound great on the
front end and become a nightmare or a burden on the back end (Tucson
Soaring example, though initially successful, also created unforeseen
issues). Soaring, by its nature, is for the long haul. In club
environments, the benefits and burdens of voluntary club membership
are often poorly expressed and too often controls are substituted for
leadership to gain the involvement of members. Adults are often much
worse in this regard than youth, and adults behaving badly don't
impress youth. Given the chance, youth will impress adults, again and
again.

I think the mystique of flying is somewhat diluted. When I was young,
few of my peers had ever been in an airplane, but we lived close to
significant aviation activity, so our imaginations and dreams of
flying were ever present. Today, a lot of youngsters have jetted
across the country or the oceans. What do they do? Play games, close
the window shades, sleep, or watch movies. Few look out the window to
try and figure out where they are or watch the changing clouds or even
the auroras. A few I've spoken with didn't consider it a particularly
pleasant experience, but a means to get to whatever was at the end of
the flight. Hardly inspiring.

Hang gliding hit a plateau. That community thinks paragliding and
powered paragliding have impacted their growth, with the lower effort
and cost of entry. All of these activities seem to attract quite a
few single people, though there are some places that appear to attract
more family involvement. There seem to be a lot of singles involved
in rock climbing also. I'm always amazed at how much is spent on
snowmobiling each year, but it is largely a family activity.

Your group has a winch. I would imagine you could involve a youth
group on a summer weekday with $8/flights. The Boy Scouts does have
an aviation merit badge and an aviation tour permit. The Girl Scouts
don't permit aviation activities, unless something has changed in the
past year or so.

Frank Whiteley

Mike Schumann wrote:
I started soaring about 3 years ago. I'm in my mid 50s and have had my
private pilots license for about 10 years. I ended up flying gliders after
having a heart bypass that made it too much of a hassle to keep my medical.

Flying gliders is a lot more fun for me than power flying ever was. I
totally agree that middle aged pilots are a big opportunity for the sport.
I tried to get my son interested in gliders, but he was much more interested
in power flying. I suspect that in 10 - 15 years, he'll get bored with $100
hamburger runs and discover the thrill of gliding too.


Been soaring since getting out of school in 1972. With a real job I was
finally in a position to get myself to and pay for flying lessons,
knowing then only that I wanted to fly in the worst sort of way (well,
philosophically, anyhow, heh heh). Parental encouragement was
non-existent; the desire came from within, from I know not where. Had
never heard of soaring, and '72 was pre-hang glider boom. Wound up
taking soaring lessons because of my work room-mate/cheaper/easier than
power lessons, and...this to me seemed key then and remains so
today...deep down I knew I wanted to fly for sheer personal enjoyment,
since my coke bottles precluded military/commercial avenues (i.e. could
not fly for a living, at least in any way that I could then see). Hang
gliding never attracted me due (initially) to absence of 3-axis control,
then 'landing gear' concerns (in my 20's!), and ultimately because
soaring was and continues to be so much of a challenge and fun.

My working observation is soaring attracts those who seek it...for
whatever reason. Some, like me, simply seek the challenge and rewards
of some sort of 'acceptable flight,' and in that sense are easily
identifiable. Age seems to hardly be a factor for these types, but
opportunity certainly is. Others don't seem to know what they seek
until after blundering into it somehow. I've no idea how to
attract/market-to these types, beyond keeping one's antennae wiggling,
and assisting where possible. Again, opportunities...

YMMV.

Regards,
Bob W.

Would you want to hang around
with guys/gals 3-5 times your own age? Certainly not! Operations like
Caesar Creek in OH or Harris Hill in NY are the shining exception.
They have very active youth group

Exactly. Don't recruit individuals, create a program. See
www.ssa.org/test/Docs/GovNews/4Background.pdf
HHSC use to be the only one, Now there are a growing number of
exceptions like TSA, CCSC...

--JHC

Some SSA chapters have had very successful, on-going youth programs.
Youth involvement is structured on a value-added, performance based
program.
http://www.texassoaring.org Youth Program (about 35 total involved Feb
2006, including a then 17-year old tow pilot)
http://www.harrishillsoaring.org/ Junior program (some good video
links in RAS a while back)

Add to that, the Greater Boston Soaring Club. So popular that there is a
waiting list for the youth program. See http://soargbsc.com - click on
"Junior Program".

Tony V.