Money grubbing FBO's

what has happened? I have been seeing multiple FBO's charging for
using the ramp from 10 to 25 bucks to park per day also RIPPING me
off for fuel. Charging almost 4.50++ a gallon for AVGAS. PLUS county
flowage tax!

I now tanker my gas auto gas ($ 2.30 gal) screw them with the
RIPPOFF charges!!

The new long range O & N tank will PAY for itself in 100
hrs!!!! When they ask if I need fuel
with JOY!!!!!!!! i tell them NO!

It's not my fault that they screwed themselves with a ****TY lease
from the local county!

One FBO charges about 4.75+ per gallon PLUS $ 20 to park each day
told me that the County gets 30 % of thier GROSS revenue, PLUS a base
RENT!

The COUNTY thru the FBO gets 10 bucks to park!

Only a FOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL would enter into that lease!

I have been told that if an airport takes ANY $$$$ from the Federal
Gov't for airport improvements that they cannot stop me from filling
MY tanks with auto gas on the ramp.

Is this true??

Comments???

wise purchaser wrote:

I have been told that if an airport takes ANY $$$$ from the Federal
Gov't for airport improvements that they cannot stop me from filling
MY tanks with auto gas on the ramp.

Is this true??


A few passages from todays Beech List, also talking about this same issue.





According to AC150-5190-8c, that's true, but they can require you to
adhere to the local safety rules.



From AC150-5109:

2. Restrictions on Self-Service. An aircraft owner or operator may
tie down, adjust, repair, refuel,
clean, and otherwise service his/her own aircraft, provided the
service is performed by the aircraft
owner/operator or his/her employees with resources supplied by the
aircraft owner or operator.
Moreover, the service must be conducted in accordance with reasonable
rules, regulations or
standards established by the airport sponsor. Any unreasonable
restriction imposed on the owners or
operators of aircraft regarding the servicing of their own aircraft
may be construed as an exclusive
rights violation. In accordance with the FAA grant assurances:

(1) An airport sponsor may not prevent an owner or operator of an
aircraft from performing
services on his/her own aircraft with his/her own employees and
equipment. Restrictions
imposed by an airport sponsor that have the effect of channeling self-
service activities to a
commercial aeronautical service provider may be an exclusive rights
violation.

(2) An airport sponsor must reasonably provide for self-servicing
activity but is not obligated to
lease airport facilities and land for such activity. That is, the
airport sponsor is not required to
encumber the airport with leases and facilities for self-servicing
activity, and

(3) An airport sponsor is under no obligation to permit aircraft
owners or operators to introduce
equipment, personnel, or practices on the airport that would be
unsafe, unsightly, or detrimental
to the public welfare or that would affect the efficient use of
airport facilities by the public.






Furthermo

o. Self-Fueling and Self-Service. Self-fueling means the fueling or
servicing of an aircraft (i.e.
changing the oil, washing) by the owner of the aircraft with his or
her own employees and using his
or her own equipment. Self-fueling and other self-services cannot be
contracted out to another party.
Self-fueling implies using fuel obtained by the aircraft owner from
the source of his/her preference.
As one of many self-service activities that can be conducted by the
aircraft owner or operator by his
or her own employees using his or her own equipment, self-fueling,
differs from using a self-service
fueling pump made available by the airport, an FBO or an aeronautical
service provider. The use of a
self-service fueling pump is a commercial activity and is not
considered self-fueling as defined herein
9 AC 150/5190-6 1/4/2007
and can be subject to minimum standards. In addition to self-fueling,
other self-service activities that
can be performed by the aircraft owner with his or her own employees
includes activities such as
maintaining, repairing, cleaning, and otherwise providing service to
an aircraft, provided the service
is performed by the aircraft owner or his/her employees with
resources supplied by the aircraft
owner. Title 14 CFR Part 43 permits the holder of a pilot certificate
to perform specific types of
preventative maintenance on any aircraft owned or operated by the pilot.

I have been told that if an airport takes ANY $$$$ from the Federal
Gov't for airport improvements that they cannot stop me from filling
MY tanks with auto gas on the ramp.

Is this true??

Yes, as long as you don't violate any established safety procedures.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

A few questions below:

From AC150-5109:

2. Restrictions on Self-Service. An aircraft owner or operator may
tie down, adjust, repair, refuel,
clean, and otherwise service his/her own aircraft, provided the
service is performed by the aircraft
owner/operator or his/her employees with resources supplied by the
aircraft owner or operator.

Does the above mean that an outside mechanic that I hire could be
construed as an "employee" and do a ramp annual at my govt. funded airport?

Moreover, the service must be conducted in accordance with reasonable
rules, regulations or
standards established by the airport sponsor. Any unreasonable
restriction imposed on the owners or
operators of aircraft regarding the servicing of their own aircraft
may be construed as an exclusive
rights violation. In accordance with the FAA grant assurances:

(1) An airport sponsor may not prevent an owner or operator of an
aircraft from performing
services on his/her own aircraft with his/her own employees and
equipment. Restrictions
imposed by an airport sponsor that have the effect of channeling self-
service activities to a
commercial aeronautical service provider may be an exclusive rights
violation.

Does the above mean that our current airport lease that has ridiculous
funding requirements for outside mechanics ($25,000 in working capital
being one of them) is an exclusive rights violation?

(2) An airport sponsor must reasonably provide for self-servicing
activity but is not obligated to
lease airport facilities and land for such activity. That is, the
airport sponsor is not required to
encumber the airport with leases and facilities for self-servicing
activity, and

(3) An airport sponsor is under no obligation to permit aircraft
owners or operators to introduce
equipment, personnel, or practices on the airport that would be
unsafe, unsightly, or detrimental
to the public welfare or that would affect the efficient use of
airport facilities by the public.

Does the above allow the airport the sole discretion to prohibit using
the "Mighty Grape" for on field fueling because they deem the thing
unsightly?


Furthermo

o. Self-Fueling and Self-Service. Self-fueling means the fueling or
servicing of an aircraft (i.e.
changing the oil, washing) by the owner of the aircraft with his or
her own employees and using his
or her own equipment. Self-fueling and other self-services cannot be
contracted out to another party.
Does the above tend to conflict with itself. I can use an "employee" but
cannot "contract out". Are we splitting an IRS hair on this point?

Have fun at your airport.
Mike

What Jay said.

In addition, if your airport receives fed money, you are allowed to do
maintenance in your tie down, etc. as long as it doesn't violate safety
procedures.
"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
oups.com...
I have been told that if an airport takes ANY $$$$ from the Federal
Gov't for airport improvements that they cannot stop me from filling
MY tanks with auto gas on the ramp.

Is this true??

Yes, as long as you don't violate any established safety procedures.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

"
I now tanker my gas auto gas ($ 2.30 gal) screw them with the
RIPPOFF charges!!




TROLL

The local fire marshall may throw a wrench into the works. This is
expecially true if they are in bed with the airport authority and the
FBO.

Clay wrote:
The local fire marshall may throw a wrench into the works. This is
expecially true if they are in bed with the airport authority and the
FBO.


The local fire marshall has nothing to say about you using approved
portable gasoline containers with a combined volume of less than 55
gallons. As long as they are stored empty, or in a contained and vented
"flammables" cabinet.

Flammable liquids in excess of that quantity invoke special rules
regarding transport of hazardous materials, a federal rule. Most
localities have adopted NFPA standards as the basis of their fire code,
usually word for word, which also provides federal guidance.

Finally, for there to be a problem, they have to actually catch you
doing it. Staying under the radar and not being the squeaky wheel goes a
long ways here.

I am a tenant in a city owned t-hangar in a major city. Our philosophy
with our hangar mates is to not be the one who gets noticed. Keeps
everyone happy. Inviting/Feeding the airport ops guys (the rank and file
folks) when we have hangar events helps too.

Dave

On Mar 24, 6:59 pm, "wise purchaser" wrote:
what has happened? I have been seeing multiple FBO's charging for
using the ramp from 10 to 25 bucks to park per day also RIPPING me
off for fuel. Charging almost 4.50++ a gallon for AVGAS. PLUS county
flowage tax!

I now tanker my gas auto gas ($ 2.30 gal) screw them with the
RIPPOFF charges!!

The new long range O & N tank will PAY for itself in 100
hrs!!!! When they ask if I need fuel
with JOY!!!!!!!! i tell them NO!

It's not my fault that they screwed themselves with a ****TY lease
from the local county!

One FBO charges about 4.75+ per gallon PLUS $ 20 to park each day
told me that the County gets 30 % of thier GROSS revenue, PLUS a base
RENT!

The COUNTY thru the FBO gets 10 bucks to park!

Only a FOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL would enter into that lease!

I have been told that if an airport takes ANY $$$$ from the Federal
Gov't for airport improvements that they cannot stop me from filling
MY tanks with auto gas on the ramp.

Is this true??

Comments???

Well, if the FBO is run by someone with any intelligence they will
charge as much as pilots will still pay. If you think the FBO is
charging way too much, you should become rich by charging 10 cents
less and take all their business.

At Sac Exec only one operation sells fuel. Another FBO recently bought
several fuel trucks (which the fuel company fills on site, avoiding
the need to transport the fuel). Once the FBO made it known that he
was considering selling his fuel to the public, the price from the one
fuel seller dropped about $1.50/gal (self-serve) over night.

-Robert

"Robert M. Gary" wrote in message
At Sac Exec only one operation sells fuel. Another FBO recently bought
several fuel trucks (which the fuel company fills on site, avoiding
the need to transport the fuel). Once the FBO made it known that he
was considering selling his fuel to the public, the price from the one
fuel seller dropped about $1.50/gal (self-serve) over night.

Same thing happened at RAP; when Rapid Fuels opened, WestJet dropped their
price about $0.75 to $1.00 a gallon after having a nice monopoly for quite
some time.