Where is everyone?

In the mid-60s and early 70s people also did not have multiple cell phones
(one for each family member), cable/satellite TV, satellite radio, "starter"
homes the size of small castles, home entertainment centers, or 2 brand new
cars (one an SUV) in the driveway. Today these are all looked at as
"necessities", and they consume what would otherwise be disposable income.

Boy, that's for sure. Let's look at the fixed expenses for my middle-
class parents in the late 1960s:

- Mortgage on a modest 3-bedroom ranch
- One car
- Telephone
- Water
- Gas/Electric

Now let's look at the average middle class American today:

- Mortgage on a 4-bedroom, 2 story house (What do people *do* with all
that space, anyway?)
- Multiple (at least two, usually more) cars
- Telephone
- Water
- Gas/Electric
- Cell phone(s) for each family member
- High speed internet
- Cable TV/movie channels/satellite dish
- Computer(s)
- Color printer(s)

Then factor in the SUVs, campers, jet skis, etc. -- none of which even
EXISTED in the '60s, and you get the point. The difference from my
parents lifestyle is just stunning -- yet everyone thinks it's
"normal" now.

THAT is why so many people are in debt to their eyeballs, IMHO. And
it's also why people feel they can't afford flight lessons.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

"Jay Honeck" wrote:

THAT is why so many people are in debt to their eyeballs, IMHO.

I know people with solid, six-figure incomes who are in debt to their
eyeballs.

The whole country is floating on a huge bubble of debt. Individuals have
their maxed-out credit cards, 5-year car loans and second mortgages and
government is helping pump the economy with massive deficit spending.

But don't worry, be happy! Buy something!

--
Dan
C-172RG at BFM

On 5/23/2007 5:18:57 PM, "Dan Luke" wrote:

The whole country is floating on a huge bubble of debt. Individuals have
their maxed-out credit cards, 5-year car loans

Car dealers around my part of the US are now offering 6 year car loans! With
auto depreciation being what it is, there will be a lot of upside-down auto
loans out there in a few more years.

--
Peter

Peter R. wrote:
On 5/23/2007 5:18:57 PM, "Dan Luke" wrote:

The whole country is floating on a huge bubble of debt. Individuals have
their maxed-out credit cards, 5-year car loans

Car dealers around my part of the US are now offering 6 year car loans! With
auto depreciation being what it is, there will be a lot of upside-down auto
loans out there in a few more years.


There are 7 year (yes, 84 month) car loans available as well. I'm not
sure this is such a bad deal as my 1994 Chevy truck is going strong
after 14 years. I bought it at the same time I bought my 182
partnership back in 1994 using a 7 year home equity loan for both. I
had the airplane 6 years, but the truck I still have! :-)

Matt

Peter R. wrote:

Car dealers around my part of the US are now offering 6 year car loans!

Now? G

I've seen 72 month loans for years, now 84 months is available at my
normally very conservative credit union.

On the other hand, there are lots of folks who have leased vehicles that
they take a 5 year loan to purchase at the three year mark. A friend of
mine who sells loans tells me this isn't a rare thing.

On 2007-05-23, Jay Honeck wrote:
THAT is why so many people are in debt to their eyeballs, IMHO. And
it's also why people feel they can't afford flight lessons.

They just aren't committed to aviation if they aren't prepared to
sacrifice some of those frivolous things.

I started to learn to fly in 1997. (10th anniversary of my 1st solo in a
couple of weeks!)

I was on international assignment, living in Houston. My employer gave
me a free money transfer for a proportion of my home country salary each
month plus an international service allowance - all in all, I had an
income going into my US bank account of about $30K a year. I banked the
rest of my salary in my home country and saved the entire lot. On $30K a
year, I managed to not only learn to fly (three to four lessons a week)
but by the end of 1999, afford a half share in the Cessna 140.

My living arrangements - apartment (in a nice area), no cable TV, no
cellphone, second hand vehicle with no repayment. No debt. I flew three
to four times a week, and I could afford it solely on that $30K. In late
1999, I bought half a share of a Cessna 140. Without dipping into my
home country savings!

Granted, you can't do that if you have a family, but if you don't care
one whit about keeping up with the Joneses, you can live debt free AND
fly without breaking the bank.

--
Yes, the Reply-To email address is valid.
Oolite-Linux: an Elite tribute: http://oolite-linux.berlios.de

On 2007-05-23, Peter R. wrote:
Car dealers around my part of the US are now offering 6 year car loans! With
auto depreciation being what it is, there will be a lot of upside-down auto
loans out there in a few more years.

Personally, I can never see myself ever buying a new car. My current
car, I bought in 2002 (it's a '95 model). If I had bought the same make
and model brand new in 2002, by 2005 it would have depreciated more than
the *entire* value of the car I have now. The maintenance cost of my now
12 year old car is less than the loan interest on a new car, let alone
the depreciation.

A good used car can be had for a song and will go on for years. Mine's
galvanized so it hasn't even gone rusty in the salty air here. It runs
as well as it did when it rolled off the dealer's lot in 1995. It gets
the fuel economy that the book says it should, too. I'm planning on
still having this car in 2015 when it's 20 years old!

--
Yes, the Reply-To email address is valid.
Oolite-Linux: an Elite tribute: http://oolite-linux.berlios.de

Dylan Smith writes:

They just aren't committed to aviation if they aren't prepared to
sacrifice some of those frivolous things.

Why must they be committed?

Would you enjoy it if you could only drive a car by sacrificing everything
else in your life? Is it wrong for people to want to drive cars even though
they are not willing to sacrifice everything else to do so?

Why must a person practically become a martyr in order to fly?

With attitudes like that, there won't be any pilots at all one day. Saying
"if you want to fly, you must suffer in every other way" isn't going to swell
the ranks.

Granted, you can't do that if you have a family, but if you don't care
one whit about keeping up with the Joneses, you can live debt free AND
fly without breaking the bank.

Unless you have a family, as you say. Or perhaps you should abandon your
family in exchange for the celestial privilege of flying?

--
Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.

Mxsmanic wrote in
:

Dylan Smith writes:

They just aren't committed to aviation if they aren't prepared to
sacrifice some of those frivolous things.

Why must they be committed?

Would you enjoy it if you could only drive a car by sacrificing
everything else in your life? Is it wrong for people to want to drive
cars even though they are not willing to sacrifice everything else to
do so?

Why must a person practically become a martyr in order to fly?

With attitudes like that, there won't be any pilots at all one day.
Saying "if you want to fly, you must suffer in every other way" isn't
going to swell the ranks.

Granted, you can't do that if you have a family, but if you don't
care one whit about keeping up with the Joneses, you can live debt
free AND fly without breaking the bank.

Unless you have a family, as you say. Or perhaps you should abandon
your family in exchange for the celestial privilege of flying?


You're an idiot.


Bertie

On 5/24/2007 7:38:03 AM, B A R R Y wrote:

I've seen 72 month loans for years, now 84 months is available at my
normally very conservative credit union.

Ah, ok. I have been out of the need to finance a car for so long (I also
don't drive new cars anymore and my current vehicle is about 8 years old)
that I was unaware until recently that auto financing had moved up to those
terms. 84 months is just insane.

--
Peter