RF-101C Voodoo Questions; 2nd try

I have a couple of questions about the RF-101C that I'd appreciate
comments on. My posting last month met with no responses, so I thought
I might try again.

Most questions refer to photos or drawings from the
Squadron publication, 'Modern Military AIrcraft: Voodoo' by Lou Drendel
and Paul Stevens (1985).

1. Camo Schemes: Does anyone have any good references, especially three
view drawings or photos that depict the experimental camo scheme
patterns carried by several RF-101's at Shaw AFB as well as early
during the war in SEA?

I'm refering to the schemes other than the 'Standard' SEA scheme, such
as those featuring a black & dark green pattern with a LARGE stars &
bars on the fuselage , and even a 'Tiger Stripe' green & black scheme.
I am referencing pages 20, 28 & 30 in the above reference.

2. Photo Flash Pod: Can anyone comment on the use of the flash
cartridge ejector pod carried on the centerline station of the 'Toy
Tiger' RF-101's? A small photo is featured on page 30 of the above
reference. Specifically:
- what, if any, designation this pod carried.
- any references to further drawings, references on dimensions or
photos of this item.
-comment on how often or what time period this item was carried.

3. ECM Pod carriage: Can anyone comment on the carriage of ECM pods on
the wing stations (?) of RF-101C's. I'm refering to page 39 of the same
reference, depicting an aircraft at Phu Cat AB
Specifically:
- what time period or operations were the pods carried?
- can anyone comment on the specific pod carried in this photo, or in
general what pods were carried by the Voodoo.
- can anyone reference any additional photos or drawings of the wing
pylon used to carry the ECM pod/ Also, what else could be carried on
the wing stations of RF-101's?

As always, I'd appreciate anyone's comments, photos, drawings,
suggested references to periodicals, books or websites, and of coarse
any assistance you feel might be helpful.

Thanks.

MM

Juvat wrote:

snip


3. ECM Pod carriage: Can anyone comment on the carriage of ECM pods on
the wing stations (?) of RF-101C's. I'm refering to page 39 of the same
reference, depicting an aircraft at Phu Cat AB

No looking at the book, guessing its either an ALQ-51 or ALQ-71. I've
got some info, not much. Don't have it highlighted in the reports I
have, will need to look.

Don't have the book, so can't comment on the pod unless you give a verbal
description. Was the ALQ-51 pod-mounted? Jenkins' book on the F-105
mentions that they were developing it as an internal fit for that a/c along
with the APS-107B under Wild Weasel II, and when they decided not to use
either on the 105, "compatibility testing of the ALQ-51 on the F-105F was
added [APGC] Project 0420Y (APR-25, APR-26, and ALQ-51 compatibility testing
on the RF-101C)."

Slightly further on he writes "The ALQ-51 was rejected as a potential F-105
ECM system due primarily to lack of space in the airframe for its
components, but test in the RF-101C were successful. The Navy provided
enough ALQ-51s to equip PACAF's Voodoos." It was certainly an internal fit
on navy a/c, although that doesn't mean they couldn't have put it in a pod
if they'd needed to, but the strong implication of the above is that it
wasn't. Dorr says in his Osprey book that ALQ-51 pods were used on the
RF-101, but when in doubt I put more trust in Jenkins than Dorr. As for
other pods, I have a vague memory of reading somewhere that ALQ-72s were
sometimes carried by the RF-101s, to make things tougher for the MiG-21's
Spin Scan.


Specifically:
- what time period or operations were the pods carried?

Gotta look it up.

The Project CHECO report "Tactical Electronic Warfare Operations in SEA,
1962-1968," dated 10 February 1969, says that pre-production QRC-160 pods
were first deployed from Kadena to Tan Son Nhut for use by RF-101s in late
March 1965. Dorr agrees on 1965. From the report:

"Support was a problem; however, a more serious deficiency surfaced. The
pods were not constructed to endure in-flight vibrations and internal parts
came loose. they also seemed to cause the RF-101 wingtips to tuck and some
thought this could become a safety of flight issue. The pods were shipped
back to the U.S., and this experience cast a shadow of suspicion over
them." No data given for their return to the U.s. but it sounds like it was
within a couple of months. The pilots that Dorr talked to said much the
same thing about the pods, albeit more generally ("Pure Junk" was the
quote).

25 QRC-160-1s (which eventually became the ALQ-71) were then sent back to
SEA, presumably modified/redesigned to eliminate the problems mentioned
above, with the first flights on 26 September 1966 on F-105s. These proved
successful, so presumably the RF-101s would have received them shortly
afterwards and certainly no later than 1967, although if they already had
ALQ-51s the need would not be as critical for them as for the wholly
unprotected (up until then) F-105s and then F-4s.


- can anyone comment on the specific pod carried in this photo, or in
general what pods were carried by the Voodoo.

You'll have to describe it, or post the photo on
alt.binary.pictures.aviation if you can. Is there a RAT (ram air turbine) on
the nose or is it clean, antenna size, number and location, seam locations,
general body shape, color, etc. If its got black radomes front and rear as
well as a small black fairing on the underside, it's a QRC-335 (ALQ-101). I
don't know that RF-101s ever used them, but that's about the only
Vietnam-era pod that you can recognize by only a few fieldmarks.

Guy

On Sun, 10 Aug 2003 21:41:15 GMT, Guy Alcala
wrote:

25 QRC-160-1s (which eventually became the ALQ-71) were then sent back to
SEA, presumably modified/redesigned to eliminate the problems mentioned
above, with the first flights on 26 September 1966 on F-105s. These proved
successful,

Pod formation though this time around right?

so presumably the RF-101s would have received them shortly
afterwards and certainly no later than 1967, although if they already had
ALQ-51s the need would not be as critical for them as for the wholly
unprotected (up until then) F-105s and then F-4s.

Did the RF-101s ever fly ALQ-71s? One plane one or maybe two jammers
going like mad across the sky sticking out like a sore thumb on radar?
Then there is the speed maybe killing the rats.

Maybe it was g's and speed that killed the rats on F-4s at Ubon in
1967? Bearings melted into little lumps of metal. The aircraft power
mod saved the day there. Before they got the dummy nose cone line
going good we were flying pods off AC power with frozen rats...

MM asked:

Specifically:
- what time period or operations were the pods carried?

Guy Alcala responded:

The Project CHECO report "Tactical Electronic Warfare Operations in SEA,
1962-1968," dated 10 February 1969, says that pre-production QRC-160 pods
were first deployed from Kadena to Tan Son Nhut for use by RF-101s in late
March 1965. Dorr agrees on 1965.

As does the Voodoo report, specifically it says that the first mission
with QRC-160 took place on 29 April 1965. Three RF-101s (from the 45th
TRS at TSN,) with four QRC-160s each supported a Rolling Thunder
strike mission by jamming radars associated with defensive equipment.

MM asked

- can anyone comment on the specific pod carried in this photo, or in
general what pods were carried by the Voodoo.

From the Voodoo report:

"Another missile downed an RF-101C on 1 August 1967 [note: Charles
Winston KIA, 20th TRS Udorn] even the the voodoo carried operational
ALQ-51 deception jammers. Seveth Air Force headquarters, having
suspected for some time that ALQ-51 pods were ineffective against
increasingly sophisticated radars in North Vietnam, withdrew them from
use. As a substitute, it directed that the RF-101C pilots again fly in
two-ship formations carrying two ALQ-71 jamming pods originally
designed for fighter aircraft."

Alternately they would be escorted by F-4s that carried ALQ-71s.

Further down the page...

"When a MiG shot down another MiG on 16 September, [note: Bobby Bagley
POW, 20th TRS Udorn] Seventh Air Force headquarters directed that the
Voodoos not be scheduled for reconnaissance mission over northern
North Vietnam."

I'm pretty sure that Bagley and his wingman were carrying ALQ-71s at
the time...Bagley never saw any of the 4 MiGs that jumped them.

The 20th TRS deactivated at Udorn on 31 Oct 1967, as they were
replaced at Udorn by the recently arrived 14th TRS flying RF-4C. This
left the 45th TRS at TSN flying RF-101s in SEA. The 45th deactivated
Nov 1970.

Juvat

Juvat & Guy and everyone else who responded,

Thanks so much for the great and informative responses; very much
appreciated.

As for the ECM pod, a former RF-4 guy on another forum I posted the
same question to looked at the photos in question (in the book) and
said the pods are indeed QRC-160-1/ALQ-71's. At the very least, you
guys have narrowed the time frame down quite a bit when they appeared
to have been used.

As for the photo flash pod, Juvat, thanks for the details- that's the
most info I have on the item right now. Let me know if you come up with
a designation for the item. Another gentlemen on a Century Series forum
stated that at one time, the pod was in place on the Air Force Museum
Voodoo, but it no longer there. I'll try looking up info via Google on
the RF-84 and go from there.

The camo patterns are still elusive, but I'll keep plugging.

Gentlemen, thanks so much for your consideration and comments. I very
much appreciate your interest.

MM



In article , Juvat
wrote:

After an exhausting session with Victoria's Secret Police, MM
blurted out:


1. Camo Schemes: Does anyone have any good references, especially three
view drawings or photos that depict the experimental camo scheme
patterns carried by several RF-101's at Shaw AFB as well as early
during the war in SEA?

Sorry nope...


2. Photo Flash Pod: Can anyone comment on the use of the flash
cartridge ejector pod carried on the centerline station of the 'Toy
Tiger' RF-101's? A small photo is featured on page 30 of the above
reference. Specifically:
- what, if any, designation this pod carried.

According to a Report titled "The Air Force in Southeast Asia: The
RF-101 Voodoo 1961-1970," the pod was originally developed for the
RF-84. I suppose it retained its nomenclature, I don't know what that
was exactly (can't find it in the report...yet). It was carried on an
MB-7 rack and could be jettisoned.

- any references to further drawings, references on dimensions or
photos of this item.

No pictures, drawings...held 80 x M-123 photo carts (two compartments,
each compartment with two racks...so 4 racks total holding 80 carts).

-comment on how often or what time period this item was carried.

Toy Tiger conversion was NOT simply hanging the pod on a Voodoo. KA-45
camera bodies with various focal lengths replaced all the KA-2s and a
modified KA-47 replaced the KA-1 (in the aft camera bay). The first
two modified jets arrived at Kadena in May of 1962 but the 15th TRS
didn't have the correct film or photoflash carts to test the jets.

The jets went south to Don Muang in September 1962 as part of the
15th's Able Mable Task Force providing recce support for JTF-116. Able
Mable rotated jets and personnel between the 15th and the 45th TRS.

The photo interpreters didn't like the KA-45 product because the
negatives were 4.5" x 4.5" where the KA-2 produced 9" x 9"
negatives. The KA-1 negatives were 9 x 18 and the replacement KA-47
negs were 9 x 9.

According to a 5th AF draft report on recce, the night photography was
only good up to 1500' AGL. Yikes! Trying to get acceptable night
photos over Laos was problematic for the Voodoo...a day VFR jet with
no FLR.

They Toy Tiger jets returned to the US in Nov due to the Cuban Crisis.

3. ECM Pod carriage: Can anyone comment on the carriage of ECM pods on
the wing stations (?) of RF-101C's. I'm refering to page 39 of the same
reference, depicting an aircraft at Phu Cat AB

No looking at the book, guessing its either an ALQ-51 or ALQ-71. I've
got some info, not much. Don't have it highlighted in the reports I
have, will need to look.

Specifically:
- what time period or operations were the pods carried?

Gotta look it up.

- can anyone comment on the specific pod carried in this photo, or in
general what pods were carried by the Voodoo.

Usually the ALQ-51, but sometimes ALQ-71s (not sure if they were
borrowed from a fighter unit or held in stock).

- can anyone reference any additional photos or drawings of the wing
pylon used to carry the ECM pod/ Also, what else could be carried on
the wing stations of RF-101's?

One guy told me the first time he went to the tanked with an ECM pod
hanging on the wing, the boomer told him, "your bomb is armed...the
fuse is spinning."

Juvat