We still need FSS

Some have posted here that we no longer need FSS and all the bungling
associated with the Loc-KMart transition. I disagree.

While DUAT/DUATS, AWOS/ASOS and aviationweather.gov provide excellent
graphics, text and aural reports, we still need trained, live briefers
to interpret the local conditions.

It is the experienced trained, live briefers that have left that we
desperately need to be replaced.

For example, when I left OSH Saturday morning, I could see the
beginnings of an undercast as I flew south towards Chicago. There were
some buildups along the lakeshore, but that is normal for the Kenosha
area. VFR over the top going around Chicago's west and south sides, the
undercast was solid. Continuing eastward across Indiana, there were some
gaps in the central part of the state closing again west of FWA. Over
FWA the tops were starting to pop around mid-day.

I was cruising along at 7500 MSL, the OAT was 60-degrees F.

This was an inversion, but the computer access did not tell me that. Not
even the two FSS briefers I spoke with during the two-and-a-half hour
flight told me about it. One of the briefers I spoke with was a trainee.
I knew it from a flight a year ago when I requested enroute weather from
another FSS briefer over Tennessee. Similiar conditions prevailed on
that day and the briefed provided an very thorough briefing of the
conditions and what to expect.

The consolidation has truely deteriorated the quality of the briefings
we now receive, but I look forward to the improvements to come. The fact
that we get shuffled around to far off place when we place a telephone
call is not good, but the air-to-ground calls should be answered by
briefers who will quickly learn their new local patterns.

On Tue, 31 Jul 2007 20:28:50 -0400, john smith
wrote in :

Some have posted here that we no longer need FSS and all the bungling
associated with the Loc-KMart transition. I disagree.

Thank you.

While DUAT/DUATS, AWOS/ASOS and aviationweather.gov provide excellent
graphics, text and aural reports, we still need trained, live briefers
to interpret the local conditions.

It is the experienced trained, live briefers that have left that we
desperately need to be replaced.

It is unfortunate that so much experienced FSS labor was replaced with
green recruits by Lockheed Martin. To lose that expertise without
remorse reveals a cavalier and uncaring attitude, as well as a
fundamental lack of insight into the historical function of Flight
Service Stations.

[Story of metrological inept FSS personnel snipped.]

The consolidation has truely deteriorated the quality of the briefings
we now receive, but I look forward to the improvements to come. The fact
that we get shuffled around to far off place when we place a telephone
call is not good, but the air-to-ground calls should be answered by
briefers who will quickly learn their new local patterns.

While I agree with your lament of the poor knowledge level of the
personnel employed in the new privatized FSS system now, there is
another fundamental argument that opposes the notion of
decommissioning Flight Service Stations.

When you find yourself at a small rural airport, how are you to use
DUATS to receive a preflight briefing?

I was cruising along at 7500 MSL, the OAT was 60-degrees F.

This was an inversion, but the computer access did not tell me that. Not
even the two FSS briefers I spoke with during the two-and-a-half hour
flight told me about it. One of the briefers I spoke with was a trainee.
I knew it from a flight a year ago when I requested enroute weather from
another FSS briefer over Tennessee. Similiar conditions prevailed on
that day and the briefed provided an very thorough briefing of the
conditions and what to expect.

The problem is that the recruits have no local knowledge.
Specifically, that an inversion is common in the vicinity of Chicago,
and that Lake Michigan often generates a mini-high pressure zone of
its own in summer because the water is so cold.

We do need some form of FSS that can be contacted by pilots in remote
areas or without onboard weather, but the current FSS is not what we
need.

Even when the FSS was fully functional, I was on a flight through
western Kansas a couple of years ago in deteriorating conditions,
called FSS, and was told I was No 4 in line for service. It probably
took close to 20 minutes to actually talk to someone. That's when I
decided that onboard weather was cheap insurance.

When you find yourself at a small rural airport, how are you to use
DUATS to receive a preflight briefing?

This dilemma has driven sales of products like the Garmin 496 and
Pilot MyCast. I know I use both of these weather marvels all the
time, since we often visit rural airports that lack weather computers.

Consolidating and privatizing flight service has shifted the cost of
weather reporting from the taxpayer to the user. Normally I would not
be happy with this situation, but quite honestly the live-and-
constantly-updated weather I get from the 496 is vastly superior to
any FSS briefing I've ever received.

With weather, a picture really IS worth a thousand words, and having
guys tell you the weather over the phone is simply another job that
technology has made obsolete.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

On Aug 1, 9:45 am, Jay Honeck wrote:
With weather, a picture really IS worth a thousand words, and having
guys tell you the weather over the phone is simply another job that
technology has made obsolete.

Good point, Jay, although I'd like a cheaper solution than the
496....

In this "user fee" environment there is no way that FSS in its old
glory could remain. It was something like half a billion (yes Billion
with a B) annually to maintain the system. And it's ONLY used by
GA. The airlines have their own dispatchers, providing their own
weather information. Even with the current system its only supposed
to be a savings of around $200 million/year.

There's not enough GA pilots to justify the cost of the system.

I'm still waiting/hoping for the FS21 features that have been
promised. The ability to look at the same "screen" as the briefer
with which your on the phone, etc. I think that will make things go
faster resulting in the ability to handle more calls/briefer. It's
easier for you both to look at the same picture and talk about second
order data, than have to describe the picture in words. Combine this
with more geographically tailored airmets (instead of the whole
Midwest covered with a "moderate turb below 8k" airmet) and the
briefing picture becomes better/cheaper.

Brian
N9093K

On Wed, 01 Aug 2007 07:45:06 -0700, Jay Honeck
wrote in . com:

having
guys tell you the weather over the phone is simply another job that
technology has made obsolete.

So while at a remote rural airport, how do you learn of TFRs without
Flight Service Stations?

having
guys tell you the weather over the phone is simply another job that
technology has made obsolete.

So while at a remote rural airport, how do you learn of TFRs without
Flight Service Stations?

I actually still use my cell phone to call FSS before each flight,
solely to check for TFRs. This is probably silly, since TFRs are
shown on the 496 screen -- but in Iowa during an election season, I do
it solely for "CYA" purposes...

The old "belt & suspenders" approach is best, when it comes to
F-16s...

:-)
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

I'm still waiting/hoping for the FS21 features that have been
promised. The ability to look at the same "screen" as the briefer
with which your on the phone, etc. I think that will make things go
faster resulting in the ability to handle more calls/briefer. It's
easier for you both to look at the same picture and talk about second
order data, than have to describe the picture in words. Combine this
with more geographically tailored airmets (instead of the whole
Midwest covered with a "moderate turb below 8k" airmet) and the
briefing picture becomes better/cheaper.

I found it interesting that the North 40 FSS briefers at OSH this year
were using ADDs, and raving about it.

I've been using this website for the past couple of years, and -- when
done in conjunction with a telephone briefing -- I was always able to
access pertinent data faster than the briefers. I'm glad that Lock/
Mart is letting their guys use whatever works
best, rather than restricting them to the same-old-same-old.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

On Wed, 01 Aug 2007 09:10:13 -0700, Jay Honeck
wrote in .com:

having
guys tell you the weather over the phone is simply another job that
technology has made obsolete.

So while at a remote rural airport, how do you learn of TFRs without
Flight Service Stations?

I actually still use my cell phone to call FSS before each flight,
solely to check for TFRs. This is probably silly, since TFRs are
shown on the 496 screen -- but in Iowa during an election season, I do
it solely for "CYA" purposes...


Right. It's not possible to use DUATS without computer access, and
you need an "official" briefing to CYA for TFRs. FSS can't be
decommissioned yet.

With the advent of super-FSS centers, your chances of stumbling across a
briefer with local knowledge of the airport(s) you are interested in is
dwindling fast.

Bob Gardner

"john smith" wrote in message
...
Some have posted here that we no longer need FSS and all the bungling
associated with the Loc-KMart transition. I disagree.

While DUAT/DUATS, AWOS/ASOS and aviationweather.gov provide excellent
graphics, text and aural reports, we still need trained, live briefers
to interpret the local conditions.

It is the experienced trained, live briefers that have left that we
desperately need to be replaced.

For example, when I left OSH Saturday morning, I could see the
beginnings of an undercast as I flew south towards Chicago. There were
some buildups along the lakeshore, but that is normal for the Kenosha
area. VFR over the top going around Chicago's west and south sides, the
undercast was solid. Continuing eastward across Indiana, there were some
gaps in the central part of the state closing again west of FWA. Over
FWA the tops were starting to pop around mid-day.

I was cruising along at 7500 MSL, the OAT was 60-degrees F.

This was an inversion, but the computer access did not tell me that. Not
even the two FSS briefers I spoke with during the two-and-a-half hour
flight told me about it. One of the briefers I spoke with was a trainee.
I knew it from a flight a year ago when I requested enroute weather from
another FSS briefer over Tennessee. Similiar conditions prevailed on
that day and the briefed provided an very thorough briefing of the
conditions and what to expect.

The consolidation has truely deteriorated the quality of the briefings
we now receive, but I look forward to the improvements to come. The fact
that we get shuffled around to far off place when we place a telephone
call is not good, but the air-to-ground calls should be answered by
briefers who will quickly learn their new local patterns.