Fuel dumping!

Some of you are jet jocks or ex-jet jocks. What can you tell me about
the practice of dumping fuel from a jet and the igniting this dumped fuel by
cutting in your afterburners? Wouldn't this be a very risky practice? If
not, why would this be done? On another newsgroup, this is being used to
explain a photograph taken by a young fellow in the UK. The photograph was
first explained to be the entry of a meteorite in the upper atmosphere but
now this is not supported. Some are using this fuel dump ignition theory to
explain what was photographed. Your comments on this practice, if it
exists, would be appreciated.
Ed

"Ed Majden" wrote in message
news:kg0gb.28475$pl3.8704@pd7tw3no...
Some of you are jet jocks or ex-jet jocks. What can you tell me about
the practice of dumping fuel from a jet and the igniting this dumped fuel
by
cutting in your afterburners? Wouldn't this be a very risky practice? If
not, why would this be done? On another newsgroup, this is being used to
explain a photograph taken by a young fellow in the UK. The photograph
was
first explained to be the entry of a meteorite in the upper atmosphere but
now this is not supported. Some are using this fuel dump ignition theory
to
explain what was photographed. Your comments on this practice, if it
exists, would be appreciated.
Ed


The RAAF F-111's do this pretty regularly , I seem to recall one
did it over Sydney during the recent Olympics, that footage was
seen around the world.

As for why, well its pretty dammed spectacular is the main reason

Keith

"Ed Majden" wrote in message
news:kg0gb.28475$pl3.8704@pd7tw3no...
Some of you are jet jocks or ex-jet jocks. What can you tell me about
the practice of dumping fuel from a jet and the igniting this dumped fuel
by
cutting in your afterburners? Wouldn't this be a very risky practice? If
not, why would this be done?

A pretty standard airshow move in the RA-5. The F-14 could also perform the
deed, but it was discouraged by NATOPS. IIRC, JP's flame rate is 260 knots.
Theoretically, at speeds faster, your torch cannot catch up with you. I
know of no aircraft lost to the trick.

R / John

On Sun, 05 Oct 2003 21:43:44 GMT, "Ed Majden"
wrote:

Some of you are jet jocks or ex-jet jocks. What can you tell me about
the practice of dumping fuel from a jet and the igniting this dumped fuel by
cutting in your afterburners? Wouldn't this be a very risky practice? If
not, why would this be done? On another newsgroup, this is being used to
explain a photograph taken by a young fellow in the UK. The photograph was
first explained to be the entry of a meteorite in the upper atmosphere but
now this is not supported. Some are using this fuel dump ignition theory to
explain what was photographed. Your comments on this practice, if it
exists, would be appreciated.
Ed




The fuel dump on a Backfire is just above and between the nozzles too.
I wonder if they've ever lit fuel off.

"John Carrier" wrote in message ...
"Ed Majden" wrote in message
news:kg0gb.28475$pl3.8704@pd7tw3no...
Some of you are jet jocks or ex-jet jocks. What can you tell me about
the practice of dumping fuel from a jet and the igniting this dumped fuel
by
cutting in your afterburners? Wouldn't this be a very risky practice? If
not, why would this be done?
SNIP:
I know of only one loss due to fuel dumping - a Boeing 314 Clipper off
Oahu, I believe, in 1939 or so. It had to abort after takeoff and was
dumping 100-octane gas and unfortunately flew in a wide level circle
and upon entering the cloud of gas-air mix caught fire and crashed. I
believe the crew was a Boeing factory crew and it was not on a
pssenger flight. FWIW all jet airliners that takeoff at a gross weight
higher than max landing weight have fuel dumping capabilitites. ISTR
the L1011 could dump 5000#/min. The F4 had to dump fuel to get to
carrier landing weight if it had to abort right after launch.
Walt BJ

The F4 had to dump fuel to get to
carrier landing weight if it had to abort right after launch.
They all still do.

Larry
AECS (AW/SW/MTS)
Disabled Combat Veteran
USN Retired

20 years of Navy in my rear view mirror
and getting further away every day ;-)


"WaltBJ" wrote in message
om...
"John Carrier" wrote in message
...
"Ed Majden" wrote in message
news:kg0gb.28475$pl3.8704@pd7tw3no...
Some of you are jet jocks or ex-jet jocks. What can you tell me
about
the practice of dumping fuel from a jet and the igniting this dumped
fuel
by
cutting in your afterburners? Wouldn't this be a very risky practice?
If
not, why would this be done?
SNIP:
I know of only one loss due to fuel dumping - a Boeing 314 Clipper off
Oahu, I believe, in 1939 or so. It had to abort after takeoff and was
dumping 100-octane gas and unfortunately flew in a wide level circle
and upon entering the cloud of gas-air mix caught fire and crashed. I
believe the crew was a Boeing factory crew and it was not on a
pssenger flight. FWIW all jet airliners that takeoff at a gross weight
higher than max landing weight have fuel dumping capabilitites. ISTR
the L1011 could dump 5000#/min. The F4 had to dump fuel to get to
carrier landing weight if it had to abort right after launch.
Walt BJ

"John Carrier"
A pretty standard airshow move in the RA-5. The F-14 could also perform
the
deed, but it was discouraged by NATOPS. IIRC, JP's flame rate is 260
knots.
Theoretically, at speeds faster, your torch cannot catch up with you. I
know of no aircraft lost to the trick.

R / John

I worked on CF-104's and CF-101B Voodoos and never heard of this being
done. Is this a recent trick or did pilots not attempt this near their home
bases where they could be easily identified? ;-)
Ed

Keith Willshaw wrote:
"Ed Majden" wrote in message
news:kg0gb.28475$pl3.8704@pd7tw3no...
Some of you are jet jocks or ex-jet jocks. What can you tell me
about the practice of dumping fuel from a jet and the igniting this
dumped fuel by cutting in your afterburners? Wouldn't this be a
very risky practice? If not, why would this be done? On another
newsgroup, this is being used to explain a photograph taken by a
young fellow in the UK. The photograph was first explained to be
the entry of a meteorite in the upper atmosphere but now this is not
supported. Some are using this fuel dump ignition theory to explain
what was photographed. Your comments on this practice, if it
exists, would be appreciated.
Ed


The RAAF F-111's do this pretty regularly , I seem to recall one
did it over Sydney during the recent Olympics, that footage was
seen around the world.

As for why, well its pretty dammed spectacular is the main reason

Keith

It made at least one Oxford Mail newspaper in England when an F-111 did it
over Upper Heyford and what with some old thatched houses and corn fields
around it scared a few people.

Richard.

We had FJ-4Bs (1950s Navy fighters) on the flight deck dump fuel from the
rudder mounted dump pipe just above the jet engine exhaust at 100% RPM (no
afterburner), but the fuel flow was so torrential it never even ignited.
Such fuels have to be partially vaporized to reach the correct ignition
temperature to begin burning.

WDA

end

"Keith Willshaw" wrote in message
...

"Ed Majden" wrote in message
news:kg0gb.28475$pl3.8704@pd7tw3no...
Some of you are jet jocks or ex-jet jocks. What can you tell me
about
the practice of dumping fuel from a jet and the igniting this dumped
fuel
by
cutting in your afterburners? Wouldn't this be a very risky practice?
If
not, why would this be done? On another newsgroup, this is being used
to
explain a photograph taken by a young fellow in the UK. The photograph
was
first explained to be the entry of a meteorite in the upper atmosphere
but
now this is not supported. Some are using this fuel dump ignition
theory
to
explain what was photographed. Your comments on this practice, if it
exists, would be appreciated.
Ed


The RAAF F-111's do this pretty regularly , I seem to recall one
did it over Sydney during the recent Olympics, that footage was
seen around the world.

As for why, well its pretty dammed spectacular is the main reason

Keith

"Ed Majden" wrote in message news:kg0gb.28475$pl3.8704@pd7tw3no...
Some of you are jet jocks or ex-jet jocks. What can you tell me about
the practice of dumping fuel from a jet and the igniting this dumped fuel by
cutting in your afterburners? Wouldn't this be a very risky practice?

In theory, not if you are going faster than the burn rate of the fuel.
The USAF banned it for their F-111s (now retired), the RAAF still does
it.

It's covered in aus.aviation fairly often

groups.google.com/groups?q=dump&btnG=Google+Search&meta=group%3Daus. aviation.*

If
not, why would this be done? On another newsgroup, this is being used to
explain a photograph taken by a young fellow in the UK. The photograph was
first explained to be the entry of a meteorite in the upper atmosphere but
now this is not supported. Some are using this fuel dump ignition theory to
explain what was photographed. Your comments on this practice, if it
exists, would be appreciated.
Ed

Having it happen at altitude in the UK is rather different from at an
Australian airshow however.

Cheers
Errol Cavit