Tow Vehicle Woes

The discussion on tow vehicles hits home. I have to replace the
trusty Accord with something that has a beefier hitch attachment
point.

I've managed to rip the hitch off from the bottom of the trunk twice
now.

Car: 2000 Honda Accord V6 sedan, 201,000 miles.

Trailer: 2006 Swan, with fiberglass top. Tongue weight: 170 lbs.
Total weight: Not yet weighed, but empty trailer is, according to the
manufacturer, 500 kg and the glider (LS1-d)weighs around 550 lbs, I
think. I would imagine the total trailer weighs about 1,700 lbs. I
hope to weigh it soon.

The first hitch attached with three bolts to the bottom of the Honda
trunk. The sheet metal measures "Oh Too Thin" I found out the hard
way. I think the trunk started tearing when the trailer hitch
wouldn't release from the knob as I was cranking the trailer hitch up
off of the knob and I was lifting the rear end of the car. Why was
the knob sticking? Because, unknown to me at the time, the Al-Ko
hitch has a little rubber cover that provides a cushion for the
trailer tongue when you back your car's bumper into it. It prevents
the trailer tongue from scratching your bumper. Well, a bit of the
rubber would get caught on the knob when hooking up the trailer and
when I tried to release, I would end up jacking up the rear of the car
a bit and stomp on the trailer hitch to release it. I thought it was
just a tight connection. Turns out the car wasn't made for this
abuse. Duh.

A body shop welded up the trunk and I found another hitch design.
This one bolted to the "frame" in two points and also to the "tie
down" or "tow" loop that is right over the center of the hitch. The
first hitch bolted here, too.

But I've managed to tear that out too. I think I did that when I
bottomed out recently. That is, when I drove the car out of a gravel
driveway onto a road and the trailer hitch hit the ground. I suppose
that's when the bottom of the trunk cracked around the central hitch
attachment point.

Damn.

So now, I need a vehicle that I can afford to buy, and afford to
commute 80 miles per day to work. Oil just hit US$88 per barrel.

I try to ride a bus to work as often as I can, but sometimes, I still
drive.

So, no, I'm not buying a Ford F-150 or Chevy pickup truck. I'm not
getting an Avalanche or Ford Excursion. In fact, I'm not getting a
Ford of anything. I've had two and they both lived up to the name of
"Found on the Road Dead."

I wish Honda had their turbo diesel here in America in the CR-V.
Sigh.

So, I think I've narrowed my search to the current Toyota RAV4 with V6
and the current Hyundai Santa Fe with V6. Both seem to have good
reviews in media that I have found. The plus for the RAV4 is that it
is a Toyota. It also gets about the same mileage as my Accord, even
with all wheel drive and 69 more horsepower! The Hyundai gets
excellent reviews on safety, but mileage isn't as good as the RAV4.
Both are rated to tow 2,000 lbs without the trailer towing package.
And both can tow 3,500 lbs with the tow package.

Which shall it be? I don't know, the story isn't over yet. But if
anyone wants a good hitch for a 2000 Accord (probably fit any sixth
generation Accord), send me a note. Should be great for a bicycle
rack.

Ray Lovinggood
Carrboro, North Carolina, USA
Have trailer and glider, but no tow vehicle

On Oct 16, 7:22 am, rlovinggood wrote:
The discussion on tow vehicles hits home. I have to replace the
trusty Accord with something that has a beefier hitch attachment
point.

I've managed to rip the hitch off from the bottom of the trunk twice
now.

Car: 2000 Honda Accord V6 sedan, 201,000 miles.

Trailer: 2006 Swan, with fiberglass top. Tongue weight: 170 lbs.
Total weight: Not yet weighed, but empty trailer is, according to the
manufacturer, 500 kg and the glider (LS1-d)weighs around 550 lbs, I
think. I would imagine the total trailer weighs about 1,700 lbs. I
hope to weigh it soon.

The first hitch attached with three bolts to the bottom of the Honda
trunk. The sheet metal measures "Oh Too Thin" I found out the hard
way. I think the trunk started tearing when the trailer hitch
wouldn't release from the knob as I was cranking the trailer hitch up
off of the knob and I was lifting the rear end of the car. Why was
the knob sticking? Because, unknown to me at the time, the Al-Ko
hitch has a little rubber cover that provides a cushion for the
trailer tongue when you back your car's bumper into it. It prevents
the trailer tongue from scratching your bumper. Well, a bit of the
rubber would get caught on the knob when hooking up the trailer and
when I tried to release, I would end up jacking up the rear of the car
a bit and stomp on the trailer hitch to release it. I thought it was
just a tight connection. Turns out the car wasn't made for this
abuse. Duh.

A body shop welded up the trunk and I found another hitch design.
This one bolted to the "frame" in two points and also to the "tie
down" or "tow" loop that is right over the center of the hitch. The
first hitch bolted here, too.

But I've managed to tear that out too. I think I did that when I
bottomed out recently. That is, when I drove the car out of a gravel
driveway onto a road and the trailer hitch hit the ground. I suppose
that's when the bottom of the trunk cracked around the central hitch
attachment point.

Damn.

So now, I need a vehicle that I can afford to buy, and afford to
commute 80 miles per day to work. Oil just hit US$88 per barrel.

I try to ride a bus to work as often as I can, but sometimes, I still
drive.

So, no, I'm not buying a Ford F-150 or Chevy pickup truck. I'm not
getting an Avalanche or Ford Excursion. In fact, I'm not getting a
Ford of anything. I've had two and they both lived up to the name of
"Found on the Road Dead."

I wish Honda had their turbo diesel here in America in the CR-V.
Sigh.

So, I think I've narrowed my search to the current Toyota RAV4 with V6
and the current Hyundai Santa Fe with V6. Both seem to have good
reviews in media that I have found. The plus for the RAV4 is that it
is a Toyota. It also gets about the same mileage as my Accord, even
with all wheel drive and 69 more horsepower! The Hyundai gets
excellent reviews on safety, but mileage isn't as good as the RAV4.
Both are rated to tow 2,000 lbs without the trailer towing package.
And both can tow 3,500 lbs with the tow package.

Which shall it be? I don't know, the story isn't over yet. But if
anyone wants a good hitch for a 2000 Accord (probably fit any sixth
generation Accord), send me a note. Should be great for a bicycle
rack.

Ray Lovinggood
Carrboro, North Carolina, USA
Have trailer and glider, but no tow vehicle

I've driven one of our club member's Honda Passport on a retrieve
(PIK-20B) and it towed extremely well. However, I found the seats a
bit too firm for my liking. Good mileage.

Frank Whiteley

On Oct 16, 9:22 am, rlovinggood wrote:
The discussion on tow vehicles hits home. I have to replace the
trusty Accord with something that has a beefier hitch attachment
point.

I've managed to rip the hitch off from the bottom of the trunk twice
now.

Car: 2000 Honda Accord V6 sedan, 201,000 miles.

Trailer: 2006 Swan, with fiberglass top. Tongue weight: 170 lbs.
Total weight: Not yet weighed, but empty trailer is, according to the
manufacturer, 500 kg and the glider (LS1-d)weighs around 550 lbs, I
think. I would imagine the total trailer weighs about 1,700 lbs. I
hope to weigh it soon.

The first hitch attached with three bolts to the bottom of the Honda
trunk. The sheet metal measures "Oh Too Thin" I found out the hard
way. I think the trunk started tearing when the trailer hitch
wouldn't release from the knob as I was cranking the trailer hitch up
off of the knob and I was lifting the rear end of the car. Why was
the knob sticking? Because, unknown to me at the time, the Al-Ko
hitch has a little rubber cover that provides a cushion for the
trailer tongue when you back your car's bumper into it. It prevents
the trailer tongue from scratching your bumper. Well, a bit of the
rubber would get caught on the knob when hooking up the trailer and
when I tried to release, I would end up jacking up the rear of the car
a bit and stomp on the trailer hitch to release it. I thought it was
just a tight connection. Turns out the car wasn't made for this
abuse. Duh.

A body shop welded up the trunk and I found another hitch design.
This one bolted to the "frame" in two points and also to the "tie
down" or "tow" loop that is right over the center of the hitch. The
first hitch bolted here, too.

But I've managed to tear that out too. I think I did that when I
bottomed out recently. That is, when I drove the car out of a gravel
driveway onto a road and the trailer hitch hit the ground. I suppose
that's when the bottom of the trunk cracked around the central hitch
attachment point.

Damn.

So now, I need a vehicle that I can afford to buy, and afford to
commute 80 miles per day to work. Oil just hit US$88 per barrel.

I try to ride a bus to work as often as I can, but sometimes, I still
drive.

So, no, I'm not buying a Ford F-150 or Chevy pickup truck. I'm not
getting an Avalanche or Ford Excursion. In fact, I'm not getting a
Ford of anything. I've had two and they both lived up to the name of
"Found on the Road Dead."

I wish Honda had their turbo diesel here in America in the CR-V.
Sigh.

So, I think I've narrowed my search to the current Toyota RAV4 with V6
and the current Hyundai Santa Fe with V6. Both seem to have good
reviews in media that I have found. The plus for the RAV4 is that it
is a Toyota. It also gets about the same mileage as my Accord, even
with all wheel drive and 69 more horsepower! The Hyundai gets
excellent reviews on safety, but mileage isn't as good as the RAV4.
Both are rated to tow 2,000 lbs without the trailer towing package.
And both can tow 3,500 lbs with the tow package.

Which shall it be? I don't know, the story isn't over yet. But if
anyone wants a good hitch for a 2000 Accord (probably fit any sixth
generation Accord), send me a note. Should be great for a bicycle
rack.

Ray Lovinggood
Carrboro, North Carolina, USA
Have trailer and glider, but no tow vehicle

Hi Ray,

How about a "treading water" approach. Pick up a used Subaru Outback
wagon (maybe a 2-3 year old one) and use this for a year or two. They
use a very simple, robust frame hitch setup. Then, sit back and
watch the various manufacturers race to get their new diesels online
here. You may be pleasantly surprised, as we know that VW, BMW,
and now Honda and Toyata are bringing their diesels here sometime in
the next 6 to 18 months.

I'm personally going to try to keep my Passat VR6 wagon alive for
another 10,000 miles (pathetic, I know - the car only has 120,000 on
it and it's become a maintenance hog) and watch. I'm seriously
considering another VW (I'm a glutton for punishment) assuming they
get one here next year AND are willing to publish a tow capacity.
BMW is in the running, though I'm not sure I can ever justify a car
that costs more than my glider :-) And, if Honda were to come
through with something like the CR-V with diesel, then it's "tschuss"
to the VW brand (after 23 years as a loyal customer).

Cheers,
Erik Mann
LS8-18 (P3)
VW Passat VR6 Wagon with 4Motion (primary tow)
Honda Odyssey (kid mover and secondary tow)

rlovinggood wrote:

snip

I wish Honda had their turbo diesel here in America in the CR-V.
Sigh.

So, I think I've narrowed my search to the current Toyota RAV4 with V6
and the current Hyundai Santa Fe with V6. Both seem to have good
reviews in media that I have found. The plus for the RAV4 is that it
is a Toyota. It also gets about the same mileage as my Accord, even
with all wheel drive and 69 more horsepower! The Hyundai gets
excellent reviews on safety, but mileage isn't as good as the RAV4.
Both are rated to tow 2,000 lbs without the trailer towing package.
And both can tow 3,500 lbs with the tow package.

Which shall it be? I don't know, the story isn't over yet. But if
anyone wants a good hitch for a 2000 Accord (probably fit any sixth
generation Accord), send me a note. Should be great for a bicycle
rack.

I'm curious why you're not considering the gas powered CR-V? We bought
a Fit (not for towing!!!) a few weeks ago, and need a bigger vehicle in
the next year or so. We were lusting over the CR-V at the dealership,
and it is top of the list to replace our Subaru (Rav-4 is close second
but we've had 5 Hondas so far).
I'm hoping the diesels arrive before the Ru needs another $3000 work :-(


Shawn

Papa3 wrote:

I'm seriously
considering another VW (I'm a glutton for punishment) assuming they
get one here next year AND are willing to publish a tow capacity.
BMW is in the running, though I'm not sure I can ever justify a car
that costs more than my glider :-)

Get a large person to give you a dope-slap to the head, and get a grip,
man! (pun intended - I know, I need a dope-slap, too)

Buy the BMW and get a more expensive glider. What's so complicated? And
it'd be the start of a great thread: "What glider should I get that
costs more than a BMW?".

Just trying to get through the winter...

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA
* Change "netto" to "net" to email me directly
* "Transponders in Sailplanes" http://tinyurl.com/y739x4
* "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation" at www.motorglider.org

On Oct 16, 9:27 am, shawn wrote:
rlovinggood wrote:

snip





I wish Honda had their turbo diesel here in America in the CR-V.
Sigh.

So, I think I've narrowed my search to the current Toyota RAV4 with V6
and the current Hyundai Santa Fe with V6. Both seem to have good
reviews in media that I have found. The plus for the RAV4 is that it
is a Toyota. It also gets about the same mileage as my Accord, even
with all wheel drive and 69 more horsepower! The Hyundai gets
excellent reviews on safety, but mileage isn't as good as the RAV4.
Both are rated to tow 2,000 lbs without the trailer towing package.
And both can tow 3,500 lbs with the tow package.

Which shall it be? I don't know, the story isn't over yet. But if
anyone wants a good hitch for a 2000 Accord (probably fit any sixth
generation Accord), send me a note. Should be great for a bicycle
rack.

I'm curious why you're not considering the gas powered CR-V? We bought
a Fit (not for towing!!!) a few weeks ago, and need a bigger vehicle in
the next year or so. We were lusting over the CR-V at the dealership,
and it is top of the list to replace our Subaru (Rav-4 is close second
but we've had 5 Hondas so far).
I'm hoping the diesels arrive before the Ru needs another $3000 work :-(

Shawn- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

It appears that the new CR-V is anly getting so-so reviews and is not
living up to the hype.

I'm curious why you're not considering the gas powered CR-V?

I have been a Honda person for years, with four Honda motorcycles, my
first Accord that ran for 396,000 miles before it was totalled in a
wreck and my current Accord that has 201,000 miles on it and remains a
great car. If Honda made sailplanes, I would probably be lusting
after one all the time.

The CR-V is rated to tow "only" 1,500 lbs. Remember how I started
this thread: Trailer hitch getting ripped off the car and the trailer
most likely weighs more than 1,500 lbs. I'm tired of having to weld
up the car where the trailer hitch is attached...

Now, after driving the 2000 Accord for a few years, I do like the
power of the V-6 over that of a four. Also, it seems that some V-6's
give very similar mileage as four cylinder engines. My wife drives a
2006 Hyundai Sonata with a four cylinder and on the same trek as I
drive to work, it gets NO BETTER mileage than my six cylinder Accord.

From the web page: www.fueleconomy.gov

The numbers shown below are the "new" EPA estimates on mileage. Note
that the four cylinder CR-V doesn't do much better than any of the V6
vehicles.

Since a very high percentage of my driving is highway driving, I tend
to look at those figures more than the city or combined numbers.

Yes, a four cylinder will work, but for not much, if any, penalty, why
not use a V6?
Power corrupts and absolute power is pretty neat.

2007 Hyundai Santa Fe
3.3 litre V6
4WD
17 city
19 combined
24 hwy

2007 Toyota RAV4
3.5 litre V6
4WD
19 city
21 combined
26 hwy

2007 Honda CR-V
2.4 litre inline four
4WD
19 city
22 combined
26 hwy

2000 Honda Accord
3.0 litre V6
FWD
18 city
21 combined
25 hwy

Ray Lovinggood
Carrboro, North Carolina, USA

The CR-V's towing capacities are very limited. When I inspected an 08
model a few weeks ago I could not even see how one could get a class 3
hitch on it.

2NO

The Caravan Club of the UK has just released a report testing lots of
Euro and Far East cars (and a few American ones) for caravan towing.
Might be of interest, although nearly all of the cars are diesel, so I
guess very few are available in the US.

http://preview.tinyurl.com/2tx5wt

Note that the lightest caravan towed was 880 kg, compared to Ray's 750
kg laden trailer, pulled by what I think are called "subcompact" cars
in the States. Larger cars were towing caravans up to 2,000 kg.

The last page also lists the same advice on weight and balance you've
all probably grown tired of me listing here :-) - at least it proves
I'm not making it up!


Dan

The VW Rabbit (current model) works for me. Perfectly stable at 65 mph
(towing a Cobra with Discus inside) and 25 mpg with the trailer. No
problem accelerating when going uphill with the trailer. 25,000 miles
and nothing has gone wrong, though the car does have various rattles.

Hitch assembly attaches to the car's frame. Don't see how there could
be any problem there (though there now is a second hitch design
available that isn't strong enough for glider towing). The exhaust
system does rattle against the hitch assembly, which I have attempted to
solve by gluing a thin strip from an old wing skid to the hitch assembly
at the point of contact.

As another data point -- a local pilot used to tow with a VW Scirocco,
and he says it was a great towcar.



rlovinggood wrote:
The discussion on tow vehicles hits home. I have to replace the
trusty Accord with something that has a beefier hitch attachment
point.

I've managed to rip the hitch off from the bottom of the trunk twice
now.

Car: 2000 Honda Accord V6 sedan, 201,000 miles.

Trailer: 2006 Swan, with fiberglass top. Tongue weight: 170 lbs.
Total weight: Not yet weighed, but empty trailer is, according to the
manufacturer, 500 kg and the glider (LS1-d)weighs around 550 lbs, I
think. I would imagine the total trailer weighs about 1,700 lbs. I
hope to weigh it soon.

The first hitch attached with three bolts to the bottom of the Honda
trunk. The sheet metal measures "Oh Too Thin" I found out the hard
way. I think the trunk started tearing when the trailer hitch
wouldn't release from the knob as I was cranking the trailer hitch up
off of the knob and I was lifting the rear end of the car. Why was
the knob sticking? Because, unknown to me at the time, the Al-Ko
hitch has a little rubber cover that provides a cushion for the
trailer tongue when you back your car's bumper into it. It prevents
the trailer tongue from scratching your bumper. Well, a bit of the
rubber would get caught on the knob when hooking up the trailer and
when I tried to release, I would end up jacking up the rear of the car
a bit and stomp on the trailer hitch to release it. I thought it was
just a tight connection. Turns out the car wasn't made for this
abuse. Duh.

A body shop welded up the trunk and I found another hitch design.
This one bolted to the "frame" in two points and also to the "tie
down" or "tow" loop that is right over the center of the hitch. The
first hitch bolted here, too.

But I've managed to tear that out too. I think I did that when I
bottomed out recently. That is, when I drove the car out of a gravel
driveway onto a road and the trailer hitch hit the ground. I suppose
that's when the bottom of the trunk cracked around the central hitch
attachment point.

Damn.

So now, I need a vehicle that I can afford to buy, and afford to
commute 80 miles per day to work. Oil just hit US$88 per barrel.

I try to ride a bus to work as often as I can, but sometimes, I still
drive.

So, no, I'm not buying a Ford F-150 or Chevy pickup truck. I'm not
getting an Avalanche or Ford Excursion. In fact, I'm not getting a
Ford of anything. I've had two and they both lived up to the name of
"Found on the Road Dead."

I wish Honda had their turbo diesel here in America in the CR-V.
Sigh.

So, I think I've narrowed my search to the current Toyota RAV4 with V6
and the current Hyundai Santa Fe with V6. Both seem to have good
reviews in media that I have found. The plus for the RAV4 is that it
is a Toyota. It also gets about the same mileage as my Accord, even
with all wheel drive and 69 more horsepower! The Hyundai gets
excellent reviews on safety, but mileage isn't as good as the RAV4.
Both are rated to tow 2,000 lbs without the trailer towing package.
And both can tow 3,500 lbs with the tow package.

Which shall it be? I don't know, the story isn't over yet. But if
anyone wants a good hitch for a 2000 Accord (probably fit any sixth
generation Accord), send me a note. Should be great for a bicycle
rack.

Ray Lovinggood
Carrboro, North Carolina, USA
Have trailer and glider, but no tow vehicle