How do you plan the descent in emergency landing practice?

After dealing with the doctors and the FAA for the last six months I
finally got my class 3 renewed. It's been a year since I last flew.
and I can't believe how fast that time went by.

So this month I am getting back into the cockpit and in addition to
all of the standard maneuvers, I feel I especially need to work on
emergency off-field landings. I've had my ticket for over 8 years,
but financial concerns always seem to keep me from flying as much as I
would like. So I do not get to practice as much as I should. Which
brings me to the point of this post.

While doing emergency off-field landing practice I am still trying to
get some consistency in planning the descents from different altitudes
to be at 1000' agl heading downwind and abeam the touchdown point.
Seems like most of the time I was doing them last year, it was hit or
miss. (perhaps a poor choice of words).

Trying to put all the variables together to put the aircraft in the
right place at the right time on a consistent basis is still an
elusive endeaveor.

Do you experienced pilots just have a sixth sense about how to get the
aircraft exactly where it needs to be? Is it something you consciously
analyze throughout the descent or just instinctlvely do?



Kirk
PPL-ASEL

On Oct 14, 7:44 pm, Kirk Ellis
wrote:
After dealing with the doctors and the FAA for the last six months I
finally got my class 3 renewed. It's been a year since I last flew.
and I can't believe how fast that time went by.

So this month I am getting back into the cockpit and in addition to
all of the standard maneuvers, I feel I especially need to work on
emergency off-field landings. I've had my ticket for over 8 years,
but financial concerns always seem to keep me from flying as much as I
would like. So I do not get to practice as much as I should. Which
brings me to the point of this post.

While doing emergency off-field landing practice I am still trying to
get some consistency in planning the descents from different altitudes
to be at 1000' agl heading downwind and abeam the touchdown point.
Seems like most of the time I was doing them last year, it was hit or
miss. (perhaps a poor choice of words).

Trying to put all the variables together to put the aircraft in the
right place at the right time on a consistent basis is still an
elusive endeaveor.

Do you experienced pilots just have a sixth sense about how to get the
aircraft exactly where it needs to be? Is it something you consciously
analyze throughout the descent or just instinctlvely do?

Kirk
PPL-ASEL

It just takes years of flight time and alot of practice. When flying
you need to consciously analyze everything from the time you untie the
plane till it's tied back down again. Best practice I have found for
spot landings is to visit an out of the way small airport and pick a
spot on the runway and fly the plane right to that spotseveral times,
using both directions if the wind is not too strong will help you
compansate for any drift/ tailwind componant, gusts,etc. The fact that
you asked the question shows your sincere desire for getting it right.
That's a good trait for a pilot.... :-)

Ben

"Kirk Ellis" wrote in message
...

After dealing with the doctors and the FAA for the last six months I
finally got my class 3 renewed. It's been a year since I last flew.
and I can't believe how fast that time went by.

So this month I am getting back into the cockpit and in addition to
all of the standard maneuvers, I feel I especially need to work on
emergency off-field landings. I've had my ticket for over 8 years,
but financial concerns always seem to keep me from flying as much as I
would like. So I do not get to practice as much as I should. Which
brings me to the point of this post.

While doing emergency off-field landing practice I am still trying to
get some consistency in planning the descents from different altitudes
to be at 1000' agl heading downwind and abeam the touchdown point.
Seems like most of the time I was doing them last year, it was hit or
miss. (perhaps a poor choice of words).

Trying to put all the variables together to put the aircraft in the
right place at the right time on a consistent basis is still an
elusive endeaveor.

Do you experienced pilots just have a sixth sense about how to get the
aircraft exactly where it needs to be? Is it something you consciously
analyze throughout the descent or just instinctlvely do?



Kirk
PPL-ASEL

There is no rule that says you have to fly a rectangular pattern. Vary it a
bit and see how it works.

My solution is to plan things so I'm always high on the base leg. That way,
I can overshoot the base leg, fly S-turns, and perform other energy and
altitude bleeding maneuvers to hit my target landing area.

On Oct 14, 9:44 pm, Kirk Ellis
wrote:
After dealing with the doctors and the FAA for the last six months I
finally got my class 3 renewed. It's been a year since I last flew.
and I can't believe how fast that time went by.

So this month I am getting back into the cockpit and in addition to
all of the standard maneuvers, I feel I especially need to work on
emergency off-field landings. I've had my ticket for over 8 years,
but financial concerns always seem to keep me from flying as much as I
would like. So I do not get to practice as much as I should. Which
brings me to the point of this post.

While doing emergency off-field landing practice I am still trying to
get some consistency in planning the descents from different altitudes
to be at 1000' agl heading downwind and abeam the touchdown point.
Seems like most of the time I was doing them last year, it was hit or
miss. (perhaps a poor choice of words).

Trying to put all the variables together to put the aircraft in the
right place at the right time on a consistent basis is still an
elusive endeaveor.

Do you experienced pilots just have a sixth sense about how to get the
aircraft exactly where it needs to be? Is it something you consciously
analyze throughout the descent or just instinctlvely do?

Kirk
PPL-ASEL

No it is not a sixth sense. It is the right combination of numbers and
sight picture. Sight picture only helps when you are fairly low (ie
500' AGL) and on final approach. During downwind or base you don't
have a good sight picture to tell whether you are going to be too high
or too low. You have to rely on your altimeter and use several
'target' altitudes until you turn final. I use 1000' for the abeam-
point, 800' for turning base and 600' for turning final. How you get
down to 1000' is completely up to you, but you have to be facing the
right direction at the right altitude. If you are doing 360's to lose
altitude you should know how much altitude is lost in one turn. You
have several tools at your disposal to control altitude such as flaps,
airspeed and slip. On a normal approach (with power on) I aim for
400-500' for turning final. The trick is not to nail everything
precisely, but to learn to identify deviations and make early
corrections so that you don't get too far off track. After turning
final, you do everything based on sight picture. Aim for 1/3 down the
runway, but when you get close and the landing is assured, slip or
flap aggressively to put it down on the numbers.

Plan your 1500' point and then you adjust to make your 1000'. By that
point you have a good feel for what the wind and your glide is doing.

Check this out:

www.caa.govt.nz/Publications/ Vector/Vector_2007_Issue-1_Jan-Feb.pdf

And before anyone says it, Kiwis can fly!

Cheers

On Oct 15, 2:44 pm, Kirk Ellis
wrote:
After dealing with the doctors and the FAA for the last six months I
finally got my class 3 renewed. It's been a year since I last flew.
and I can't believe how fast that time went by.

So this month I am getting back into the cockpit and in addition to
all of the standard maneuvers, I feel I especially need to work on
emergency off-field landings. I've had my ticket for over 8 years,
but financial concerns always seem to keep me from flying as much as I
would like. So I do not get to practice as much as I should. Which
brings me to the point of this post.

While doing emergency off-field landing practice I am still trying to
get some consistency in planning the descents from different altitudes
to be at 1000' agl heading downwind and abeam the touchdown point.
Seems like most of the time I was doing them last year, it was hit or
miss. (perhaps a poor choice of words).

Trying to put all the variables together to put the aircraft in the
right place at the right time on a consistent basis is still an
elusive endeaveor.

Do you experienced pilots just have a sixth sense about how to get the
aircraft exactly where it needs to be? Is it something you consciously
analyze throughout the descent or just instinctlvely do?

Kirk
PPL-ASEL

Andrew Sarangan schrieb:

No it is not a sixth sense. It is the right combination of numbers and
sight picture. Sight picture only helps when you are fairly low (ie
500' AGL) and on final approach. During downwind or base you don't
have a good sight picture to tell whether you are going to be too high
or too low. You have to rely on your altimeter and use several
'target' altitudes until you turn final.

I disagree. Of course the alitmeter can be very helpful, but only if you
know the ground elevation and if you are sure your current altimeter
setting is correct.

As this is often not the case, think in angles. Angles stay the same
regardless of height and distance.

"Kirk Ellis" wrote in message
...

After dealing with the doctors and the FAA for the last six months I
finally got my class 3 renewed. It's been a year since I last flew.
and I can't believe how fast that time went by.

So this month I am getting back into the cockpit and in addition to
all of the standard maneuvers, I feel I especially need to work on
emergency off-field landings. I've had my ticket for over 8 years,
but financial concerns always seem to keep me from flying as much as I
would like. So I do not get to practice as much as I should. Which
brings me to the point of this post.

While doing emergency off-field landing practice I am still trying to
get some consistency in planning the descents from different altitudes
to be at 1000' agl heading downwind and abeam the touchdown point.
Seems like most of the time I was doing them last year, it was hit or
miss. (perhaps a poor choice of words).

Trying to put all the variables together to put the aircraft in the
right place at the right time on a consistent basis is still an
elusive endeaveor.

Do you experienced pilots just have a sixth sense about how to get the
aircraft exactly where it needs to be? Is it something you consciously
analyze throughout the descent or just instinctlvely do?



Kirk
PPL-ASEL

To quote an Air Force recruiting poster, "Aim High". It is almost always
easier to get rid of altitude, than to get it back. As someone else said,
aim for 1/3, and slip or flap as necessary to get to the numbers.

From a distance, go to the landing area, and circle. Better to arrive
high and have an opportunity while circling down to really look it over for
obstructions, wires, wind, soft ground etc.

Al G, 7 engine failures on 6 aircraft, no off field
(unscheduled) landings.

"Al G" wrote:
Al G, 7 engine failures on 6 aircraft, no off field
(unscheduled) landings.

7 engine failures on 6 aircraft ... in how many years? how many hours?
Just wondering because the off-the-cuff attitude expressed here (which,
having had one, I disagree with) is that "the odds are very small" of
having an actual engine failure. Hardly seems that's been the case with
you!

Bottom line is that whether it's none, one or six, small odds don't mean
that it doesn't happen or that you don't have to concern yourself with
being prepared. Even though Kirk says his recent practices have been hit
and miss, he would, by virtue of the fact that he's been *doing them*
and thinking about that process, at least have the drill and how the
airplane reacts to various things fresh in his mind -- in terms of
having some degree of preparedness, isn't that a better place to be in
the event of an actual failure than if you hadn't practiced the drill
since your last BFR (which could be as long as two years ago)?

"Shirl" wrote in message
...
"Al G" wrote:
Al G, 7 engine failures on 6 aircraft, no off field
(unscheduled) landings.

7 engine failures on 6 aircraft ... in how many years? how many hours?
Just wondering because the off-the-cuff attitude expressed here (which,
having had one, I disagree with) is that "the odds are very small" of
having an actual engine failure. Hardly seems that's been the case with
you!

Bottom line is that whether it's none, one or six, small odds don't mean
that it doesn't happen or that you don't have to concern yourself with
being prepared. Even though Kirk says his recent practices have been hit
and miss, he would, by virtue of the fact that he's been *doing them*
and thinking about that process, at least have the drill and how the
airplane reacts to various things fresh in his mind -- in terms of
having some degree of preparedness, isn't that a better place to be in
the event of an actual failure than if you hadn't practiced the drill
since your last BFR (which could be as long as two years ago)?

35 Years, 7000 civilian hrs. Largely CFI & 135.

Mooney 201, induction icing, at night, 30 North of Medford, shot the
ILS.
Aeronca Champ, carburetor icing, left downwind, 2nd in a flight of
two.
C-340, both engines, fuel icing, 100 nm North of Reno, got 1 lit
lower.
C-210, Mechanic induced induction failure, 250' on departure, landed
straight ahead.
Piper Aztec, Mechanic induced engine fire, same mechanic as 210, 50
South of Medford.
C337, Pressurized, Cylinder head blew off the rear engine, on
rotation at Boeing.

6 paved runways, 5 of them had a bar, (extra points).

Obviously Ice has played a major role. To this day I drink beer,
which is served without ice.

Al G CFIAMI 2069297

or too low. You have to rely on your altimeter and use several
'target' altitudes until you turn final.
I disagree. Of course the alitmeter can be very helpful, but only if you
know the ground elevation and if you are sure your current altimeter
setting is correct.

Correct. Additionally, altimeter will tend to stick with engine off.
Glider pilots are taught to ignore altimeter during circuit and
landing.

Bartek