Change the name to trainers.

Flight Simulators as used on PC's should not be called simulators because they
simulate too damned little. Call them flight trainers. That is a far more
accurate description by far. Except the ones that are just games. Call them
flight games. After all else has failed, always resort to reality no matter
how much it hurts.


Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

ArtKramr wrote:

Flight Simulators as used on PC's should not be called simulators because
they simulate too damned little. Call them flight trainers.


Like Link Trainers - fine for practicing instrument procedures, but you
can't see or feel the flak bursts.

Dave

Well I'm glad to see you giving a little on this one Art.

Jarg

"ArtKramr" wrote in message
...
Flight Simulators as used on PC's should not be called simulators because
they
simulate too damned little. Call them flight trainers. That is a far more
accurate description by far. Except the ones that are just games. Call
them
flight games. After all else has failed, always resort to reality no
matter
how much it hurts.


Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

Subject: Change the name to trainers.
From: "Jarg"
Date: 11/21/03 3:24 PM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id:

Well I'm glad to see you giving a little on this one Art.

Jarg

"ArtKramr" wrote in message
...
Flight Simulators as used on PC's should not be called simulators because
they
simulate too damned little. Call them flight trainers. That is a far more
accurate description by far. Except the ones that are just games. Call
them
flight games. After all else has failed, always resort to reality no
matter
how much it hurts.


Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, .
Just a little. Very little.(grin)

Regards,



..
Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

"ArtKramr" wrote in message
...
Flight Simulators as used on PC's should not be called simulators because
they
simulate too damned little. Call them flight trainers. That is a far more
accurate description by far. Except the ones that are just games. Call
them
flight games. After all else has failed, always resort to reality no
matter
how much it hurts.

You could argue the word "simulator" is way over used in computer
entertainment software as a whole: Sports simulators, driving/racing
simulators, as well as flight simulators. I think it all comes down to the
definition of the word simulator. Flight Simulator implies replicating the
dynamics of the science behind the process, which is plainly modelled only
very simply in a "game." Perhaps a better definition is Flight Emulator.
(The dictionary definition being "to strive to imitate.") Or maybe just
Flight Imitator.

Si

On Sat, 22 Nov 2003 23:23:07 -0000, "Simon Robbins"
wrote:

Flight Simulator implies replicating the
dynamics of the science behind the process, which is plainly modelled only
very simply in a "game."

Please define for me what is specifically modeled "very simply" in Aces High
or MSFS.

Do you think it's flight modeling?

My regards,

Widewing
Widewing (C.C. Jordan)
http://www.worldwar2aviation.com
http://www.cradleofaviation.org

Subject: Change the name to trainers.
From: "Simon Robbins"
Date: 11/22/03 3:23 PM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id:

"ArtKramr" wrote in message
...
Flight Simulators as used on PC's should not be called simulators because
they
simulate too damned little. Call them flight trainers. That is a far more
accurate description by far. Except the ones that are just games. Call
them
flight games. After all else has failed, always resort to reality no
matter
how much it hurts.

You could argue the word "simulator" is way over used in computer
entertainment software as a whole: Sports simulators, driving/racing
simulators, as well as flight simulators. I think it all comes down to the
definition of the word simulator. Flight Simulator implies replicating the
dynamics of the science behind the process, which is plainly modelled only
very simply in a "game." Perhaps a better definition is Flight Emulator.
(The dictionary definition being "to strive to imitate.") Or maybe just
Flight Imitator.

Si


Not a bad idea. (grin)

Regards,


Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

You could argue the word "simulator" is way over used in computer
entertainment software as a whole: Sports simulators, driving/racing
simulators, as well as flight simulators. I think it all comes down to the
definition of the word simulator. Flight Simulator implies replicating the
dynamics of the science behind the process, which is plainly modelled only
very simply in a "game." Perhaps a better definition is Flight Emulator.
(The dictionary definition being "to strive to imitate.") Or maybe just
Flight Imitator.

Si


Not a bad idea. (grin)

Regards,


Arthur Kramer

Coming in 2006....

Microsoft Flight Approximator!!!


Ron
Pilot/Wildland Firefighter

On Sun, 23 Nov 2003 00:26:55 GMT,
(Corey C. Jordan) wrote:

On Sat, 22 Nov 2003 23:23:07 -0000, "Simon Robbins"
wrote:

Flight Simulator implies replicating the
dynamics of the science behind the process, which is plainly modelled only
very simply in a "game."

Please define for me what is specifically modeled "very simply" in Aces High
or MSFS.

The dynamics of the airframe. Frequency, damping, poles, zeros,
transfer functions, the stability and control coefficients of the six
equations of motion, the atmosphere, the actuators, controller
dynamics, mass characteristics, that kind of stuff. As well as the
flight control system.

The mathematical model of the vehicle, in other words. That which
makes each airplane fly like that kind of airplane.

I spent a lot of my career determining this stuff so it could be put
into engineering simulations. Read Iliff & Shafer on the estimation
of S&C derivatives for the Space Shuttle to see how we determine such
numbers and put them into the mathematical model used in the
simulation. You'll find it on www.dfrc.nasa.gov, in the technical
reports section.

Mary

--
Mary Shafer Retired aerospace research engineer

Wow

On Sat, 22 Nov 2003 19:10:26 -0800, Mary Shafer
wrote:

On Sun, 23 Nov 2003 00:26:55 GMT,
(Corey C. Jordan) wrote:

On Sat, 22 Nov 2003 23:23:07 -0000, "Simon Robbins"
wrote:

Flight Simulator implies replicating the
dynamics of the science behind the process, which is plainly modelled only
very simply in a "game."

Please define for me what is specifically modeled "very simply" in Aces High
or MSFS.

The dynamics of the airframe. Frequency, damping, poles, zeros,
transfer functions, the stability and control coefficients of the six
equations of motion, the atmosphere, the actuators, controller
dynamics, mass characteristics, that kind of stuff. As well as the
flight control system.

The mathematical model of the vehicle, in other words. That which
makes each airplane fly like that kind of airplane.

I spent a lot of my career determining this stuff so it could be put
into engineering simulations. Read Iliff & Shafer on the estimation
of S&C derivatives for the Space Shuttle to see how we determine such
numbers and put them into the mathematical model used in the
simulation. You'll find it on www.dfrc.nasa.gov, in the technical
reports section.

Mary