RV6A down in Seattle area

I just found some more info on the RV6A that went down in Stanwood, Wa (30
mi north of seattle).

The aircraft registration
http://registry.faa.gov/aircraftinqu...mndfin d.y=12

Says the engine was an O-320 series. She told her husband just before the
crash she was losing power.
Another victim of a Lycosaur.

Ron Webb wrote:
I just found some more info on the RV6A that went down in Stanwood, Wa (30
mi north of seattle).

The aircraft registration
http://registry.faa.gov/aircraftinqu...mndfin d.y=12

Says the engine was an O-320 series. She told her husband just before the
crash she was losing power.
Another victim of a Lycosaur.



Do you really want to argue that Lyc's safety record is worse than the
vast majority of other piston engines used in aircraft?

I personally think you using this accident, with absolutely nothing to
support it was an engine failure, to back-up whatever you have against
Lyco engines is kind of tacky.

Building my 601XL w/Corvair conversion.

Gig 601XL Builder schreef:
Ron Webb wrote:
I just found some more info on the RV6A that went down in Stanwood, Wa
(30 mi north of seattle).

The aircraft registration
http://registry.faa.gov/aircraftinqu...mndfin d.y=12


Says the engine was an O-320 series. She told her husband just before
the crash she was losing power.
Another victim of a Lycosaur.


Do you really want to argue that Lyc's safety record is worse than the
vast majority of other piston engines used in aircraft?

I personally think you using this accident, with absolutely nothing to
support it was an engine failure, to back-up whatever you have against
Lyco engines is kind of tacky.

Hm. Was thinking much the same, even if I like neither
the medieval US engines nor me-too usenet replies.

"Gig 601XL Builder" wrote in message
...
Ron Webb wrote:
I just found some more info on the RV6A that went down in Stanwood, Wa
(30 mi north of seattle).

The aircraft registration
http://registry.faa.gov/aircraftinqu...mndfin d.y=12

Says the engine was an O-320 series. She told her husband just before the
crash she was losing power.
Another victim of a Lycosaur.

Do you really want to argue that Lyc's safety record is worse than the
vast majority of other piston engines used in aircraft?

I personally think you using this accident, with absolutely nothing to
support it was an engine failure, to back-up whatever you have against
Lyco engines is kind of tacky.

Building my 601XL w/Corvair conversion.



No support that it was an engine failure? How about the pilot's own words, a
few seconds before she died? She SAID she was losing power! OK it could well
have been something stupid like carb ice. I'd list that as an engine
failure. Doesn't happen in water cooled engines that heat the intake
manifold with coolant.

As for the safety record of Lyc vs others, I have to grant that I'd have to
pick my examples pretty carefully to find an uncertificated homebuilt with a
better record. Such examples exist. http://www.rotaryaviation.com/ for one.

But I think you'd have to admit that if a major manufacturer (Toyota or GM
maybe) decided to do it, a properly engineered aircraft engine could be
developed that would be so utterly reliable that this kind of thing would
not happen.

My point is that the factors that have combined to make sure this
hypothetical engine does not exist (legal and regulatory) have cost many
lives over the past 40 years in the name of safety.

"Ron Webb" wrote

But I think you'd have to admit that if a major manufacturer (Toyota or GM
maybe) decided to do it, a properly engineered aircraft engine could be
developed that would be so utterly reliable that this kind of thing would
not happen.

It could be that the pilot neglected to make sure there was enough fuel in
the tank, or that a fuel valve was in the correct position.

Wait for the report before you pop off. Good advice for everyone to follow.
--
Jim in NC

On Feb 18, 3:11*pm, "Morgans" wrote:
"Ron Webb" wrote



But I think you'd have to admit that if a major manufacturer (Toyota or GM
maybe) decided to do it, a properly engineered aircraft engine could be
developed that would be so utterly reliable that this kind of thing would
not happen.

*It could be that the pilot neglected to make sure there was enough fuel in
the tank, or that a fuel valve was in the correct position.

Wait for the report before you pop off. *Good advice for everyone to follow.
--
Jim in NC

Agreed, since the number of potiential causes for "loss of power" are
lengthy and few are directly related to the engine manufacturer.

Lets offer condolences to the family instead of speculation on the
causes.

On Mon, 18 Feb 2008 11:38:29 -0900, "Ron Webb" wrote:

As for the safety record of Lyc vs others, I have to grant that I'd have to
pick my examples pretty carefully to find an uncertificated homebuilt with a
better record. Such examples exist. http://www.rotaryaviation.com/ for one.

I did a study of homebuilt accidents over a ~8 year period. Didn't have fleet
sizes for Lycosaur and Auto conversions, but instead looked at how often the
engine was the *cause* of the accident.

Out of 744 homebuilt accidents involving Lycoming, Continental, Franklin,
Jacobs, or Pratt and Whitney engines, 104 were due to some form of engine
failure.

Out of 219 homebuilt accidents in the same period involving auto-engine
conversions, 63 were due to engine failure.

Lycosaur: 14%
Auto Engines: 28%.

Offhand, I'd say the Lycosaurs are safer.

For the purpose of my analysis, I counted the following as "due to engine
failure":

Internal failures (pistons, cranks, etc.)
Fuel System on the engine side of the firewall
Ignition systems
Drive systems (e.g., PSRUs)
Oil System
Carburetor or fuel injector failure
Cooling system failure
Undetermined loss of power


Ron Wanttaja

Could have been fuel starvation. If so, I can't think of any engine
that would have been more reliable than the Lycoming...

Scott


Ron Webb wrote:
"Gig 601XL Builder" wrote in message
...

Ron Webb wrote:

I just found some more info on the RV6A that went down in Stanwood, Wa
(30 mi north of seattle).

The aircraft registration
http://registry.faa.gov/aircraftinqu...mndfin d.y=12

Says the engine was an O-320 series. She told her husband just before the
crash she was losing power.
Another victim of a Lycosaur.

Do you really want to argue that Lyc's safety record is worse than the
vast majority of other piston engines used in aircraft?

I personally think you using this accident, with absolutely nothing to
support it was an engine failure, to back-up whatever you have against
Lyco engines is kind of tacky.

Building my 601XL w/Corvair conversion.




No support that it was an engine failure? How about the pilot's own words, a
few seconds before she died? She SAID she was losing power! OK it could well
have been something stupid like carb ice. I'd list that as an engine
failure. Doesn't happen in water cooled engines that heat the intake
manifold with coolant.

As for the safety record of Lyc vs others, I have to grant that I'd have to
pick my examples pretty carefully to find an uncertificated homebuilt with a
better record. Such examples exist. http://www.rotaryaviation.com/ for one.

But I think you'd have to admit that if a major manufacturer (Toyota or GM
maybe) decided to do it, a properly engineered aircraft engine could be
developed that would be so utterly reliable that this kind of thing would
not happen.

My point is that the factors that have combined to make sure this
hypothetical engine does not exist (legal and regulatory) have cost many
lives over the past 40 years in the name of safety.



--
Scott
http://corbenflyer.tripod.com/
Gotta Fly or Gonna Die
Building RV-4 (Super Slow Build Version)

Ron Webb wrote:
"Gig 601XL Builder" wrote in message
...
Ron Webb wrote:
I just found some more info on the RV6A that went down in Stanwood, Wa
(30 mi north of seattle).

The aircraft registration
http://registry.faa.gov/aircraftinqu...mndfin d.y=12

Says the engine was an O-320 series. She told her husband just before the
crash she was losing power.
Another victim of a Lycosaur.
Do you really want to argue that Lyc's safety record is worse than the
vast majority of other piston engines used in aircraft?

I personally think you using this accident, with absolutely nothing to
support it was an engine failure, to back-up whatever you have against
Lyco engines is kind of tacky.

Building my 601XL w/Corvair conversion.



No support that it was an engine failure? How about the pilot's own words, a
few seconds before she died? She SAID she was losing power! OK it could well
have been something stupid like carb ice. I'd list that as an engine
failure. Doesn't happen in water cooled engines that heat the intake
manifold with coolant.

Carb ice, fuel starvation, broken throttle control... The list goes own
and own.




As for the safety record of Lyc vs others, I have to grant that I'd have to
pick my examples pretty carefully to find an uncertificated homebuilt with a
better record. Such examples exist. http://www.rotaryaviation.com/ for one.

You're going to have to be very careful indeed. If just one of the
engines has failed it will probably push it into a worst record than Lyc
and TCM because of the number of those engines and hours that they have
flown.



But I think you'd have to admit that if a major manufacturer (Toyota or GM
maybe) decided to do it, a properly engineered aircraft engine could be
developed that would be so utterly reliable that this kind of thing would
not happen.

GM and Toyota engines fail all the time. Only when it happens you just
pull it over to the curb.


My point is that the factors that have combined to make sure this
hypothetical engine does not exist (legal and regulatory) have cost many
lives over the past 40 years in the name of safety.



You can no more prove that than I could prove the statement if reversed.

On Tue, 19 Feb 2008 08:30:52 -0600, Gig 601XL Builder
wrote:

No support that it was an engine failure? How about the pilot's own words, a
few seconds before she died? She SAID she was losing power! OK it could well
have been something stupid like carb ice. I'd list that as an engine
failure. Doesn't happen in water cooled engines that heat the intake
manifold with coolant.

Carb ice, fuel starvation, broken throttle control... The list goes on
and on.

Since there's so many RVs, I've been able to run a parallel analysis of RV
accident causes to see how they vary from the general homebuilt causes.

RVs have significantly higher accident rates due to fuel exhaustion, VFR in IFR
conditions, and carburetor icing.

The first two can probably be mostly explained by the RV's suitability for
cross-country flight; they're more likely to be used for pure transportation
than a Kitfox, etc. and are thus more likely to run out of fuel prematurely or
have the pilot try to push weather. In fact, the RV rates closely reflect those
of my Cessna 172/210 control group.

I've been told that many RVs don't have conventional muff-type carb heat. If
so, this could somewhat explain the higher accident rate due to icing.

[Please note that I am writing in general here...I do not have any insight into
specifics of the recent accident.]

Ron Wanttaja