New Pilot Advice

I thought I had taken up this hobby with a lot of enthusiasm until
last weekend. Prior to last weekend I thought I was making steady
progress, taking off landing, developing some touch on the stick. When
I go the field I approach the flight with butterflies and some fear. I
was told by an instuctor this is good when you lose those butterflies
don't fly. Last weekend conditions were deceptive. Relatively windy on
the ground 10-15 knots but apparently much tougher high up (according
to the crusty old tow pilot). We took off with me at the contols and
everything was fine until about 300 feet and something hit that 2
seater from the side and we flew into the air above and to right of
the tow plane, the instructor took over and we proceeded up to about
1000 feet and I took over again until about 2000 feet where the tow
plane hit a sink and dropped like a stone (I've dealt with this before
but not to this extreme) I was not fast enough and the instuctor took
over again. By this time I was really frightened and my confidence was
destroyed. I did manage to take the plane over and get a clean release
at 3000.

We then proceeded to hit some incredible thermals and my instuctor
intorduced me to the fine art of climbing a thermal with other gliders
in it. The thermals were pretty rough and the vario was pegged at
times. He had me doing tight turns until I started getting air sick
(this had only happened on one previous flight). We continued to ride
the thermals until I told the instuctor we better go down. I tried to
hold on I know he wanted to stay up.

When we got down on the ground I did not want the instuctor to notice
but my knees were shaking. I do not scare easily, I have had a lot of
other hobbies where danger is involved. My question to you experienced
pilots is this fear normal? I was really frightened. If you knew me
I'd never admit it to you. Is this something you can get over? This
experience left me wondering is this hobby for me?

BTW when we got down they were cleaning out another 2 seater where a
student threw up (he was up for about 20mins), at least I stayed up
for 45 mins and did not throw up. At least I got some satisfaction.
Thanks

On Nov 11, 12:18*am, wrote:
I do not scare easily, I have had a lot of
other hobbies where danger is involved. My question to you experienced
pilots is this fear normal? I was really frightened. If you knew me
I'd never admit it to you.

Listen to your instructor.

IMHO it is necessary to have an appropriate level of caution,
apprehension, fear, enjoyment, confidence. Too much of
any of those is dangerous.

Is this something you can get over?

I could get over it, with time. I have no idea whether you could
get over it.

This experience left me wondering is this hobby for me?

Only you can answer that.

You have sensed fear perhaps because you are not sure what happened. A
tow through booming lift (and the sink that goes with it hand in hand)
can make you fearful, but once you understand what happened some of
the fear will go away.

Talk to your instructor about how you need to be quick to respond to
the effects of flying through thermals on tow. Everything happens
faster and it is good practice. As you found out it means a great
flight is just ahead. Hopefully the upset feeling will diminish as you
get comfortable with stronger conditions and and experience lower
stress levels. I think it is normal to feel a bit upset if someone
else is flying on a bumpy day.

On Nov 10, 4:18*pm, wrote:
I thought I had taken up this hobby with a lot of enthusiasm until
last weekend. Prior to last weekend I thought I was making steady
progress, taking off landing, developing some touch on the stick. When
I go the field I approach the flight with butterflies and some fear. I
was told by an instuctor this is good when you lose those butterflies
don't fly. Last weekend conditions were deceptive. Relatively windy on
the ground 10-15 knots but apparently much tougher high up (according
to the crusty old tow pilot). We took off with me at the contols and
everything was fine until about 300 feet and something hit that 2
seater from the side and we flew into the air above and to right of
the tow plane, the instructor took over and we proceeded up to about
1000 feet and I took over again until about 2000 feet where the tow
plane hit a sink and dropped like a stone (I've dealt with this before
but not to this extreme) I was not fast enough and the instuctor took
over again. By this time I was really frightened and my confidence was
destroyed. I did manage to take the plane over and get a clean release
at 3000.

We then proceeded to hit some incredible thermals and my instuctor
intorduced me to the fine art of climbing a thermal with other gliders
in it. The thermals were pretty rough and the vario was pegged at
times. He had me doing tight turns until I started getting air sick
(this had only happened on one previous flight). We continued to ride
the thermals until I told the instuctor we better go down. I tried to
hold on I know he wanted to stay up.

When we got down on the ground I did not want the instuctor to notice
but my knees were shaking. I do not scare easily, I have had a lot of
other hobbies where danger is involved. My question to you experienced
pilots is this fear normal? I was really frightened. If you knew me
I'd never admit it to you. Is this something you can get over? This
experience left me wondering is this hobby for me?

BTW when we got down they were cleaning out another 2 seater where a
student threw up (he was up for about 20mins), at least I stayed up
for 45 mins and did not throw up. At least I got some satisfaction.
Thanks

To offer good advice one would have to know how long you have been
taking lessons. The best person to talk to is your instructor. If
you don’t feel comfortable talking to him/her then get another
instructor.

What you experienced would not be unusual if you are relatively new to
the sport and have not flown in severe conditions. Learning to fly
should be fun. Once you are in control and confident often the air
sickness is not an issue.

At some point you will need to be able to handle most of what mother
nature throws at you but that will come later.

Sorry to hear you had such a rough ordeal - and kudos to you for
having the courage to bring it up! Too many people would have just
tucked their tail and never come back...

As some of the others mentioned, how "bad" your reaction is depends on
how long you've been soaring AND what kind of soaring you want to
do.

Let me take that last bit and talk about it first: Just because some
of us delight in going hundreds of miles or flying in contests doesn't
mean YOU have to. If you find that you enjoy simple local soaring on
calm days, there is NOTHING WRONG with that.

And there's nothing wrong with deciding _not_ to fly when conditions
make you uncomfortable! There are legal limits to when we can fly,
but every pilot should develop their own "personal limits". Knowing
when you will be uncomfortable or unsafe is an important part of
staying out of trouble and enjoying your flying hobby.

Keep those tidbits tucked away in your brain. If nothing else they
will help calm you and reassure you that you don't have to beat
yourself up or be scared as part of flying.

Now, I will say that its a good thing to push your boundaries just a
little bit now and then - but you should do so willingly and
carefully. If you're worried about crosswinds, don't jump in the
cockpit someday when its blowing 25 knots across the runway! Start at
5mph and work your way up as you become comfortable.

It sounds to me like your instructor was being aggressive and jumped
into more serious flying than you were ready for. That's a little bit
of a knock on him, but YOU have a duty to tell him when you're not
comfortable with certain maneuvers or flying situations; so be sure to
keep that communication flowing! If you don't tell the instructor, he
can't help.

As you fly more and more, you will probably become comfortable with
more aggressive maneuvers and rougher air. It seems odd at first, but
in rough air you have to learn to let the glider to what it wants to a
certain degree (trying to hold a precise attitude or speed just won't
work); but you also have to learn to be aggressive with your
corrections, when you need to make one! To build confidence in this
(and to increase your rudder coordination skills), go up on a calm day
and work with the instructor on making hard entries into medium-banked
turns (30 to 45 degrees). Hold the turn for 90 or 180 degrees, roll-
out crisply (try to roll-out on a defined spot on the horizon), hold
level flight for a few seconds, then sharply enter a medium-banked
turn the other direction. This is also excellent practice for when
you start having to find and enter thermals, too. Work your way up to
using nearly-full aileron deflection and get comfortable with using
that much stick (side-to-side, watch your elevator inputs and keep
them gentle).

You will also find that you become a less air-sick over time;
ESPECIALLY once you've gotten used to flying solo and aren't nervous
about "getting it perfect" for the instructor. Sometimes we stress
ourselves or get "psych'ed out" by trying too hard. Remember to be
precise; but also remember that the instructor is there to HELP, and
its all practice...

I've been flying for 2 years now and I still occasionally get scared
in certain turbulence (usually near mountain-peaks); choppy air takes
a lot of getting used to - it takes time to develop the faith that
those thin bendy wings will hold up! But as long as you mind your
speed (below maneuvering/rough-air speed), they will.

Good luck and remember to pace yourself - the idea is to have fun so
don't let the instructor or other pilots force you into something you
don't want to do! Eventually you will be "Pilot In Command" and its
never too early to start learning how to exercise good judgement.

Take care,

--Noel

On Nov 10, 6:18*pm, wrote: By this time I was
really frightened and my confidence was
destroyed.

Really sorry to hear this... You were just handed a little too much
for your skill level and that feeling is a natural reaction.
Sometimes we push our students a little too much. Don't worry about
it You are LEARNING. Remember that. You aren't supposed to be able
to handle everything yet. It's normal for the instructor to take over
occasionally. Later, when you've mastered the skills you'll be flying
tow in those conditions with enthusiasm!

Matt Michael

I just want to add my 2 cents worth. I agree with everything that has
been said here. You have the right to say "knock it off" at anytime. I
don't know how much flying you've done but don't be concerned if the
instructor takes the controls. He's/She's there to help you. If the
rough air bothers you right now, ask your instructor for a few flights
in calmer air to get your confidence back, then proceed at your pace.

I'm a relatively new pilot myself. I started 2 1/2 years ago and got
my ticket last December. It was a bumpy ride (so to speak), with ups,
downs, and plateaus. There were times that I also questioned whether I
was doing the right thing, especially when one instructor made me sick
on a hot day doing steep turns trying to stay up. But now I'm on my
own and flying a Pik-20. Recently I had a four hour flight. I didn't
think it was ever going to happen, and man it felt good. All the tough
times are worth going through.

Hang in there my friend. What you are going through is NORMAL. Just
remember to learn from every flight.

Warren Evans

wrote:
I thought I had taken up this hobby with a lot of enthusiasm until
last weekend. Prior to last weekend I thought I was making steady
progress, taking off landing, developing some touch on the stick. When
I go the field I approach the flight with butterflies and some fear.

Sounds exactly like what happened to me this summer when I started. There
was always a bit of butterflies and some fear on the ~30 minute drive to
the airfield for the first 41 flights (about 3 flights a day). I'll let
you know if I still have them on the drive to the airfield for the 42nd
flight - which probably wont happen till next spring!

I was told by an instuctor this is good when you lose those butterflies
don't fly.

I'm too inexperienced to advise otherwise, but perhaps it is just as
important to always treat each flight as a potentially deadly serious but
enjoyable undertaking, butterflies or not.

Last weekend conditions were deceptive. Relatively windy on
the ground 10-15 knots but apparently much tougher high up (according
to the crusty old tow pilot). We took off with me at the contols and
everything was fine until about 300 feet and something hit that 2
seater from the side and we flew into the air above and to right of
the tow plane, the instructor took over and we proceeded up to about
1000 feet and I took over again until about 2000 feet where the tow
plane hit a sink and dropped like a stone (I've dealt with this before
but not to this extreme) I was not fast enough and the instuctor took
over again. By this time I was really frightened and my confidence was
destroyed. I did manage to take the plane over and get a clean release
at 3000.

I haven't run into anything as bad as that yet, but definitely have had
some gusty days that made the aerotows challenging. And landings -
nothing more unsettling to me than dealing with unsettled air on final.

We then proceeded to hit some incredible thermals and my instuctor
intorduced me to the fine art of climbing a thermal with other gliders
in it. The thermals were pretty rough and the vario was pegged at
times. He had me doing tight turns until I started getting air sick
(this had only happened on one previous flight). We continued to ride
the thermals until I told the instuctor we better go down. I tried to
hold on I know he wanted to stay up.

You're paying for the ride. The one day we got great thermals I used the
altitude gains to practice slips at altitude (I'm too cheap to pay for
the extra tow height. ;-))

When we got down on the ground I did not want the instuctor to notice
but my knees were shaking. I do not scare easily, I have had a lot of
other hobbies where danger is involved. My question to you experienced
pilots is this fear normal? I was really frightened. If you knew me
I'd never admit it to you. Is this something you can get over? This
experience left me wondering is this hobby for me?

Again, I'm not experienced, but it was recommended to me that one should
get back up in the air as soon as possible after an unsettling incident -
lest one dwell too long and get permanent cold feet. Been there with one
scary incident, had that recommended to me, and though it didn't kill my
butterflies I didn't get permanent cold feet either.

In the end only you can decide whether, on balance, the good points of
the sport outweigh the risks.

BTW when we got down they were cleaning out another 2 seater where a
student threw up (he was up for about 20mins), at least I stayed up
for 45 mins and did not throw up. At least I got some satisfaction.

Take it where you can get it, I guess! :-)

On Nov 10, 10:33*pm, wrote:
I just want to add my 2 cents worth. I agree with everything that has
been said here. You have the right to say "knock it off" at anytime. I
don't know how much flying you've done but don't be concerned if the
instructor takes the controls. He's/She's there to help you. If the
rough air bothers you right now, ask your instructor for a few flights
in calmer air to get your confidence back, then proceed at your pace.

I'm a relatively new pilot myself. I started 2 1/2 years ago and got
my ticket last December. It was a bumpy ride (so to speak), with ups,
downs, and plateaus. There were times that I also questioned whether I
was doing the right thing, especially when one instructor made me sick
on a hot day doing steep turns trying to stay up. But now I'm on my
own and flying a Pik-20. Recently I had a four hour flight. I didn't
think it was ever going to happen, and man it felt good. All the tough
times are worth going through.

Hang in there my friend. What you are going through is NORMAL. Just
remember to learn from every flight.

Warren Evans

thanks to all that posted I'm certainly not giving up. My fear you see
was an unexpected new reaction. I've ripped down a mountain on a
mountain bike, windsurfed in some foolish conditions, hiked through
some dangerous moutains in Colombia (people issues mostly) but this
glider business is new. That flight was my 11th flight in a glider. I
have been in airplanes since I was 6 months old, never had a problem
with them. But on the other had I have never been a pilot either. I
was very disappointed in my reaction. Those thermals were ripping. At
least that part was fun.

thanks to all that posted I'm certainly not giving up. My fear you see
was an unexpected new reaction. I've ripped down a mountain on a
mountain bike, windsurfed in some foolish conditions, hiked through
some dangerous moutains in Colombia (people issues mostly) but this
glider business is new. That flight was my 11th flight in a glider. I
have been in airplanes since I was 6 months old, never had a problem
with them. But on the other had I have never been a pilot either. I
was very disappointed in my reaction. Those thermals were ripping. At
least that part was fun.


It's a total wilderness up there in a glider. And it's a wilderness
that you have almost no natural ability to navigate. A ripping day on
your 11th flight! Wholly Crap Man! It's not like other flying. Give
it a little time. You will rock.