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#1
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F-86 and sound barrier
I was watching the Discovery Channel program comparing the
F-86 and Mig-15 and heard that the F-86 can break the sound barrier. I know that this has been claimed many time before but is that the official position of the US Air Force? Is Yeager still officially the first man to break the sound barrier? |
#2
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I was watching the Discovery Channel program comparing the
F-86 and Mig-15 and heard that the F-86 can break the sound barrier. I know that this has been claimed many time before but is that the official position of the US Air Force? Certainly the F-86 can break the sound barrier in a shallow dive. Many pilots got thier first taste of sonic flight that way. I have read that a Canadian pilot used to open airshows by doing just that in the days before sonic booms were outlawed in most areas. Is Yeager still officially the first man to break the sound barrier? Yes. Though anecdotal evidence suggests strongly that George Welch was probably the first pilot to break the sound barrier there will probably never be any way to prove it in the same way that Yeager's flight was. Apparently though some time ago the Air Force took to qualifying Yeager's flight as the first sustained supersonic flight in level attitude. John Dupre' |
#3
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On Sun, 21 Sep 2003 21:16:00 -0500, wrote:
I was watching the Discovery Channel program comparing the F-86 and Mig-15 and heard that the F-86 can break the sound barrier. I know that this has been claimed many time before but is that the official position of the US Air Force? Is Yeager still officially the first man to break the sound barrier? No, George Welch was the first to exceed Mach 1 in a dive with the XP-86. See: http://home.att.net/~historyzone/Welch2.html I also have a better source, my father. He was part of the design team for the Sabre at North American and they were informed about this BEFORE Yeager broke the sound barrier. He had to keep mum on this for a long time though. |
#4
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"JDupre5762" I have read that a Canadian pilot used to open airshows by doing just that in the days before sonic booms were outlawed in most areas. I witnessed an F86 braking the sound barrier as a young fellow at an airshow in Regina Saskatchewan in the 1950's. Test pilot, Jan Zurakowski is given credit for breaking the sound barrier in a prototype CF100 in 1951 or 1952. Quite an accomplishment in a straight winged aircraft of this type. The Mk-5 Clunk could not do this as wing tip extensions were added to improve operational ceiling extending the life of the CF100 for a few more years. Jan retired after the stupid cancellation of the CF105 Avro Arrow project. Ed |
#6
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On Sun, 21 Sep 2003 21:16:00 -0500, VH wrote:
I was watching the Discovery Channel program comparing the F-86 and Mig-15 and heard that the F-86 can break the sound barrier. I know that this has been claimed many time before but is that the official position of the US Air Force? Is Yeager still officially the first man to break the sound barrier? Breaking Mach 1 was a standard flight in the curriculum for Perrin AFB's advanced flight training school for F86D interceptor pilots. You went up to max alititude, nosed over into a full vertical dive with full throttle and watched the Mach needle hit 1 before reducing power and starting the pullout. This was in 1957. No biggie, except the ego trip of claiming membership in the Machbuster's Club. John Bailey http://home.rochester.rr.com/jbxroads/mailto.html |
#7
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In article , Dan
Shackelford wrote: On Sun, 21 Sep 2003 21:16:00 -0500, wrote: I was watching the Discovery Channel program comparing the F-86 and Mig-15 and heard that the F-86 can break the sound barrier. I know that this has been claimed many time before but is that the official position of the US Air Force? Is Yeager still officially the first man to break the sound barrier? No, George Welch was the first to exceed Mach 1 in a dive with the XP-86. See: http://home.att.net/~historyzone/Welch2.html I think you misunderstood the question. The question isn't whether it was Welch or Yeager, but who the USAF officially recognizes. At this point in time, it is still Yeager. -john- -- ================================================== ================== John A. Weeks III 952-432-2708 Newave Communications http://www.johnweeks.com ================================================== ================== |
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#9
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On 22 Sep 2003 09:55:54 -0700, (robert arndt) wrote:
The USAF likes to cover up everything and they are very good at it. But answering your question- an emphatic "No" will suffice. It was the Luftwaffe that broke Mach 1 back in the closing days of WW2. Check out the Wright Patterson Official Manual on Flying the Me-262 (circa 1946). It says that the Me-262 can break the sound barrier in a shallow dive. So either one of the captured 262s flown by a US pilot broke Mach 1 or the information came from German sources in 1945. Anyway, the official manual precedes Yeager's official flight- fact. There's a small problem with this myth. At speeds beyond Mach 0.88, the Me 262 begins shedding major components, wings and such. The highest speed ever attained by the F-80 was Mach 0.92, and it had a lower drag coefficient than the 262. Hell, the 262 didn't even have a laminar flow wing! Moreover, that slight degree of wing sweep was added simply for CG purposes. Unlike the XP-86, the Me 262 wasn't capable of even coming close to Mach 1. Neither was the Me 163. My regards, Widewing (C.C. Jordan) http://www.worldwar2aviation.com http://www.netaces.org http://www.hitechcreations.com |
#10
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Hi all,
The 'Welch/Yeager' argument conveniently ignores the NAA flight records for the period in question. Either Blackburn didn't have these for his book or chose to ignore them, but they clearly detail Welch's undercarriage problem on October 1, 1947 and also detail the redesign necessary prior to the next flight with the undercarriage functioning. To suggest that NAA had to bolt the gear down to prevent Welch going supersonic is ridiculous. Incidentally, Blackburn also conveniently neglects to include the fact that Welch had a P-82 chase for the first flight; it would have been difficult (not to say crass) for Welch to sneak off and break the sound barrier with a chase craft trying to determine the damage caused by the undercarriage malfunction which happened during climb-out on flight number 1. Much as I love the F-86, it wasn't first to Mach 1. There is (and always has been) no subsitute for good research. Duncan |
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