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#1
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Identifying the other guy
Sorry to hear you ran out of Crayons, JJ. My favorite
mis-identification happend at a regionals at Lubbock. There was a somewhat frantic call over the radio 'Watch out, Zuni!!!' I was flying the only Zuni at the contest. Trouble was, my plane was on the grid and I was sitting in my crew vehicle, and my plane was totally stationary. I guess the guy in the air saw a 'Z' on a glider, and just assumed. It was a DG-600. Should I be flattered or insulted that the pilot confused a DG-600 for a Zuni? Signed, Confused |
#2
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Identifying the other guy
At a regional contest in the U.S. this past spring, we had a bit of
"entertainment" on the radio. The launch was underway, with about four Pawnee's, one Cezzna Agtruck (Agwagon?), and one Cezzna 175, all towing up about 50 gliders. Over the radio: "Towplane, speed up!" Response: "Which Towplane?" Glider Guider: "The Pawnee!" Response: "Which Pawnee?" And then, I was laughing so hard, I couldn't concentrate on flying my own glider. But the play continued. "What color Pawnee?" Glider Guider: "White" Response: "Which white Pawnee? What color stripes?" Glider Guider: "I can't tell" I guess he finally got off tow. I don't know if they ever figured out which Pawnee needed more speed. Ray Lovinggood Carrboro, North Carolina, USA |
#3
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Identifying the other guy
Many contests now have the towplanes put their "callsigns" on the flaps
with tape or JJ's crayon. Puts the info right where the person who needs it can see it. Helps out tremendously in case you missed looking at the N number in the heat of a contest launch. Larry "rlovinggood" wrote in message : At a regional contest in the U.S. this past spring, we had a bit of "entertainment" on the radio. The launch was underway, with about four Pawnee's, one Cezzna Agtruck (Agwagon?), and one Cezzna 175, all towing up about 50 gliders. Over the radio: "Towplane, speed up!" Response: "Which Towplane?" Glider Guider: "The Pawnee!" Response: "Which Pawnee?" And then, I was laughing so hard, I couldn't concentrate on flying my own glider. But the play continued. "What color Pawnee?" Glider Guider: "White" Response: "Which white Pawnee? What color stripes?" Glider Guider: "I can't tell" I guess he finally got off tow. I don't know if they ever figured out which Pawnee needed more speed. Ray Lovinggood Carrboro, North Carolina, USA |
#4
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Identifying the other guy
Over the radio: "Towplane, speed up!" Response: "Which Towplane?" Glider Guider: "The Pawnee!" Response: "Which Pawnee?" Funny, looking back at it. I'm laughing as well, being an occasional towpilot. But it brings to mind that in the USA, we have a signal to ask the towpilot to increase speed. NO RADIO REQUIRED. A 10 minute DVD on the Standard SSA Signals is offered for FREE by request from the Soaring Safety Foundation at www.soaringsafety.org (or get one at the SSF booth February 14-16, 2008 SSA Convention in Albuquerque.) A review of the signals is also on the SSF website, along with a wingrunner and towpilot course. Lots of good stuff on the SSF website, but safety is a hard sell, and Imust agree, not as entertaining as looking at the OLC or browsing the sailplane classified ads. But the fact is that US glider pilots must know all 18 SSA signals before solo and on glider rating checkrides. SInce those events are, for many of us, a distant memory, it's a good idea to review all signals soon, or insist upon it during your next Flight Review (oops, unless that "BFR" is technically satisfied in an airplane, helicopter, balloon, or as part of an airline job.) Glider specific procedures can be reviewed on your Flight Review in a glider or on your "First Flight" of the new year with a CFIG, as promoted, again, by your Soaring Safety Foundation. All towpilots and wingrunners must review the signals as well. By the way, if you disagree with the effectiveness of the current signal to speed up (Hint: "Rock & Roll"), volunteer to chair a committee to change it. Refer to the FAA regulation CFR 91.309 (a)(5) that basically tells us that all glider pilots and towpilots must agree on certain tow procedures before aerotow launch. This includes discussing tow speed. A hassle at a contest indeed, but a radio call before launch requesting a tow speed may eliminate the assumption on the part of the glider pilot that towpilots can read minds. A non-radio option is to have all towpilots tow at a relatively fast speed, then the glider pilot could use the "slow down" signal, (yaw or "fishtail"), which only works if the towpilot knows the signal and is checking the mirror. Make the radio call, but simultaneously perform the proper signal. It's a team effort, this aerotow bit. Learn, review, and practice the signals. This suggestion includes glider pilots, wingrunners and towpilots. Get the free DVD from the Soaring Safety Foundation, or review the signals at www.soaringsafety.org Thought for the next thread: Towpilot gives the fast rudder waggle signal just after takeoff and a majority of glider pilots - - - release. Wrong. Good luck landing your 10 to 1 brick glider. Know the signals! Burt Marfa, west Texas USA |
#5
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Identifying the other guy
As a fellow towpilot I have my opinion on the visual signals.
My thoughts a It's hard enough looking in the mirror to see the glider in the first place. The mirror vibrates enough that I have to take a hand and steady it to get a be tter (not good) view. The field of view is limited and the towplane tail obscures the glider often. The towpilot is scanning many things, so the glider pilot will have to maintain the signal for quite a while to be seen and understood. The radio is quicker and easier. The issue about miss identified tow planes will only happen at contests. (Or at very busy sites maybe ?) Since the radio is the usual method of communication, the visual signals do not get practiced. Therefore they might have been memorized, but they are not practiced on every tow. I keep a placard in my cockpit, just in case. The only 2 signals that I have reliably memorized are a) wave-off by tow plane (he rocks his wing) and b) check your spoilers/glider (rudder waggle). The rest I'll take the time to look up if needed. The signals were developed in a time when gliders and tow planes didn't always have radios. Now we normally have radios and the only signals we need are the true emergency signals. Todd Smith 3S |
#6
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Identifying the other guy
On Nov 16, 7:47 am, Burt Compton - Marfa wrote:
By the way, if you disagree with the effectiveness of the current signal to speed up (Hint: "Rock & Roll"), volunteer to chair a committee to change it. I don't really care if the signal is changed but I will never use it. If you are really too slow, trying to rock the wings enough to alert the tow pilot is not too wise. If you really can rock the wings enough to alert the tow pilot you probably aren't really too slow. At most contest I've been to, the tow speed is agreed by the tow pilot and the glider pilot by being set at the mandatory pilot meeting. True, the first day usually finds some of the less experienced tow pilots flying slow, but there should never be a need for all pilots to request a tow speed prior to launch. The frequency must be kept clear to safety calls. Andy |
#7
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Identifying the other guy
By the way, if you disagree with the effectiveness of the current signal to speed up (Hint: "Rock & Roll"), volunteer to chair a committee to change it. It may work if you're flying a Gollywomper, but not with a heavily ballasted racing ship. At one contest, my tow pilot hit a strong thermal and rapidly slowed down. Before I could even hit the microphone button, I had almost lost control and sank rapidly into low tow position, well below his mirrors. I had too little airspeed to rock or waggle anything, and my only pitch control was the rope holding the nose up, so I released and dropped backwards off the tow rope. I've had a few similar experiences, but would never ever try to signal the towplane pilot except by radio. Mike |
#8
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Identifying the other guy
Too-slow tows are a constant problem at contests. Not being a tow
pilot, I can only guess a the problem, but I suspect that tow pilots used to pulling 2-33s can't seem to adjust to what happens with heavily ballasted gliders on a hot day. The radio is full of radio calls, wing rocking, (yes, contest pilots know the signals) and more radio calls to no effect. It happened to me last summer. The big problem was not "more speed" on a well-balanced tow. My towplane simply took off for the sky while I was still rolling on the ground! Towing a fully ballasted glider requires the towplane to gain speed while low, and make sure the glider has taken off before climbing. The contest rules say 70 mph, and that means gain speed to 70 while still in ground effect. Most hilarious radio exchange: Lubbock, standard class nationals. Full water, slight cross and downwind. The same towplane is always too slow. "Towplane X, 70 mph please. ...(no answer) TOWPLANE X, MORE SPEED (no answer) .... TOWPLANE X, I NEED MORE SPEED NOW!" (pause) "all right, all right, ... but what do y'all want to fly so fast for anyhow?" Of course many seasoned contest tow pilots provide excellent and dedicated servce, for little reward, and we're very thankful for them. John Cochrane |
#9
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Identifying the other guy
On Nov 16, 8:01 pm, BB wrote:
Too-slow tows are a constant problem at contests. Not being a tow pilot, I can only guess a the problem, Snip glider has taken off before climbing. The contest rules say 70 mph, and that means gain speed to 70 while still in ground effect. Snip "all right, all right, ... but what do y'all want to fly so fast for anyhow?" Of course many seasoned contest tow pilots provide excellent and dedicated servce, for little reward, and we're very thankful for them. On thread -- I encourage labeling all vehicles largely on multiple surfaces in contest environments. Then -- dangling from the thread.... Oh, how I laugh. It must be about time that the list of ranked pilots is now jonesing for a contest.... in the northern hemisphere (specifically USA) , at least. Thanks for publicly thanking tow pilots. For starters, 70 mph is 60.8 knots (or 112 kph for the entertained Continental pilots avoiding this rant). BB says 70 mph is the rule, so I won't go check the units of measure. 70 mph would do for me. A wet glider won't stall at 60.8 knots in under 30 degrees (aerotowing) bank angle in moderately convective flight conditions, without some other provocation. I do believe most of you will spend hours of the day thermalling at or less than that same 60 knots, wet, at significantly more bank angle than you used while being towed. Have you managed to leave your flaps forward from that moment of initial roll, when you wanted that enhanced aileron effectiveness? So why do those repetitive radio pleas for speed recur? Simply, that the glider pilot is used to spending his day looking at the horizon line with his nose BELOW the reference, and when he spends a scant five to seven minutes with his nose above the horizon, his little peasized hypothalamus is screaming to "normalize" things. Especially since he is aleady adrenalined up, with anticipation of fear or reward in the midst of his peers. Let's holler at the only socially acceptable outlet, the towpilot. Or, if we really don't like the picture, draw on some more positive flap to change lift and the forward view. I didn't say this was rational, in fact, I strongly believe it is an emotional moment. Truly, that heavy, draggy towplane has a seriously higher stall speed than your glider has, and if he is flying, you are/ can be flying. (Unless you happen to be blessed with a Cessna Wren conversion or something else particularly tug exotic.) I heard tales of climbing behind the Italian turbine Bird Dog at Uvalde years ago. Speed was fine, but the climb rate and pitch attitude had eyeballs rolling. I often require pilots in field checks or flight reviews to make the tug slow to 50 knots with signals (not radios). Most folks whine and wallow, when they are learning how much pitch change that requires from them to hold level position behind the tug. Then they must use the speed-up(down?) signal to get back to "regular" speed. Since so few US operations require the use of signals in initial training, flight tests, or recurrent training, few towpilots keep sharp on them, and become lazy/complacent in monitoring the customer. Few glider pilots will practice them voluntarily. And yet, what else improves airmanship during those available minutes behind the tug? Burt's post implies there are a potload of signals to remember (eighteen). But while airborn, there are only seven. And only four originate from the glider pilot, three from the tug. I'd bet everyone reading here can tell me the three hand signals for use bicycling or driving antiques in road traffic. And you used those how recently? Why can't we get glider folks to practice, remember and use something which is so frequently relevant? I want my customers to be "in command" of their towing experience, both in heading and speed, and encourage visual signals to the tug. Radios are helpful, but don't need to be the primary form of "convenience" communication, to save bandwidth for urgent calls, or to be polite in a high traffic environment. And, what do you want to fly so fast for anyway? I know a towpilot who responds to the ground discussion later, "You can tow fast or climb fast, which one do you want?" Because the call after speeding up was frequently, "Can't you get me to those guys any quicker?" My favorite tow speed call from years ago was a complaint . . . "That Pawnee is towing me at ninety knots. Slow down !!!!" When asked later, the glider pilot told me that yes, they were climbing at the time. I withdrew from the discussion at that moment, knowing that those two factors were in complete opposition to each other and not possible in reality. It was a 235 Pawnee and a wet Open Class glider. I just told him I would "talk" to the tow pilot. Discuss, think, learn, practice. Fly with a CFI every spring, and ask to really work on something. Don't take the easy way out; improve. Safe soaring, Cindy B www.caracolesoaring.com |
#10
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Identifying the other guy
"CindyB" wrote in message ... On Nov 16, 8:01 pm, BB wrote: Too-slow tows are a constant problem at contests. Not being a tow pilot, I can only guess a the problem, Snip glider has taken off before climbing. The contest rules say 70 mph, and that means gain speed to 70 while still in ground effect. Snip "all right, all right, ... but what do y'all want to fly so fast for anyhow?" Of course many seasoned contest tow pilots provide excellent and dedicated servce, for little reward, and we're very thankful for them. On thread -- I encourage labeling all vehicles largely on multiple surfaces in contest environments. Then -- dangling from the thread.... Oh, how I laugh. It must be about time that the list of ranked pilots is now jonesing for a contest.... in the northern hemisphere (specifically USA) , at least. Thanks for publicly thanking tow pilots. For starters, 70 mph is 60.8 knots (or 112 kph for the entertained Continental pilots avoiding this rant). BB says 70 mph is the rule, so I won't go check the units of measure. 70 mph would do for me. A wet glider won't stall at 60.8 knots in under 30 degrees (aerotowing) bank angle in moderately convective flight conditions, without some other provocation. I do believe most of you will spend hours of the day thermalling at or less than that same 60 knots, wet, at significantly more bank angle than you used while being towed. Have you managed to leave your flaps forward from that moment of initial roll, when you wanted that enhanced aileron effectiveness? So why do those repetitive radio pleas for speed recur? Simply, that the glider pilot is used to spending his day looking at the horizon line with his nose BELOW the reference, and when he spends a scant five to seven minutes with his nose above the horizon, his little peasized hypothalamus is screaming to "normalize" things. Especially since he is aleady adrenalined up, with anticipation of fear or reward in the midst of his peers. Let's holler at the only socially acceptable outlet, the towpilot. Or, if we really don't like the picture, draw on some more positive flap to change lift and the forward view. I didn't say this was rational, in fact, I strongly believe it is an emotional moment. Truly, that heavy, draggy towplane has a seriously higher stall speed than your glider has, and if he is flying, you are/ can be flying. (Unless you happen to be blessed with a Cessna Wren conversion or something else particularly tug exotic.) I heard tales of climbing behind the Italian turbine Bird Dog at Uvalde years ago. Speed was fine, but the climb rate and pitch attitude had eyeballs rolling. I often require pilots in field checks or flight reviews to make the tug slow to 50 knots with signals (not radios). Most folks whine and wallow, when they are learning how much pitch change that requires from them to hold level position behind the tug. Then they must use the speed-up(down?) signal to get back to "regular" speed. Since so few US operations require the use of signals in initial training, flight tests, or recurrent training, few towpilots keep sharp on them, and become lazy/complacent in monitoring the customer. Few glider pilots will practice them voluntarily. And yet, what else improves airmanship during those available minutes behind the tug? Burt's post implies there are a potload of signals to remember (eighteen). But while airborn, there are only seven. And only four originate from the glider pilot, three from the tug. I'd bet everyone reading here can tell me the three hand signals for use bicycling or driving antiques in road traffic. And you used those how recently? Why can't we get glider folks to practice, remember and use something which is so frequently relevant? I want my customers to be "in command" of their towing experience, both in heading and speed, and encourage visual signals to the tug. Radios are helpful, but don't need to be the primary form of "convenience" communication, to save bandwidth for urgent calls, or to be polite in a high traffic environment. And, what do you want to fly so fast for anyway? I know a towpilot who responds to the ground discussion later, "You can tow fast or climb fast, which one do you want?" Because the call after speeding up was frequently, "Can't you get me to those guys any quicker?" My favorite tow speed call from years ago was a complaint . . . "That Pawnee is towing me at ninety knots. Slow down !!!!" When asked later, the glider pilot told me that yes, they were climbing at the time. I withdrew from the discussion at that moment, knowing that those two factors were in complete opposition to each other and not possible in reality. It was a 235 Pawnee and a wet Open Class glider. I just told him I would "talk" to the tow pilot. Discuss, think, learn, practice. Fly with a CFI every spring, and ask to really work on something. Don't take the easy way out; improve. Safe soaring, Cindy B www.caracolesoaring.com While the SSA signals are important to know, as a practical matter, they are insufficient. I have experience as a towpilot, CFIG, and contestant pilot. Our club Pawnee is festooned with mirrors-4 in all. One is dedicated to watching the "funnel" for the rope in a Tost reel-We have dyed the last 10 ft of rope with red rings to tell when it is "all out" and in flight to tell when it has finished retracting. The switch doesn't always cut off when fully retracted, and some pilots "forget" to reel in the rope, so it can be checked before landing. One is dedicated to seeing the wing runner and his signals. It is mounted outboard on the strut. The other two give a pretty good view of the glider in flight, but the cowl mounted mirrors do vibrate, and the glider doesn't always stay where it belongs. As a result, recognition of signals would not be immediate, to say the least! Radio is IMHO essential communication, with signals as backup. We should, of course, be "currernt" on all backup systems. I have, on a few occasions, been towed "too slow" at a contest. Less frequently now since the CD &CM and Chief TP have agreed that all tows are at 80mph (70kt) unless requested otherwise. Lately, we have been specifying "heavy" by radio during hookup if ballasted, in a contest with FAI and Sports classses. The "too slow" is more of a sensation than a ASI reading, which is often not accurate on tow. I only have a limited range of make and model experience with ballast (ASW20B, ASW27B, DG800B) They all feel solid at thermalling speed in the 55-60 kt range. When the same glider feels "mushy" and wallowing at tow speed, it is worrisome, no matter what the cause. A request for "Pawnee 23L 5 kt faster please" takes 5-6 sec. The increased speed cures the feeling and solidity returns. On one occasion, behind a "sick" Call Aire, I released at 1200 ft over the airport, in a good thermal--preferring a relight to enduring the feeling any longer. A quick look at the ASI showed a hair under 50kt! I was able to climb out but was in a position to join a downwind if needed. The last 3 characters of the towplane call sign on the flaps make it easy to call the correct towplane. That would eliminate a lot of confusion. As far as saving bandwidth, except for an imminent mid-air collision, what could be more urgent than a mushy, heavy glider close to the ground on tow? How would a glider stall and recovery while on tow affect the towplane? Would there be time to recognize a "speed up" signal? Accidents and fatalities have occurred on tow due to a too-slow tow. It is not a trivial problem. Hartley Falbaum USA "KF" |
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