GTR-5 ?? Liberty recordings

I just listened to the EC121 recordings of Israeli helicopter pilots
approaching the Liberty after the attack. (All in Hebrew of course).

The pilot is asking whether the ship is dangerous and is been answered
that its not known whether the ship is dangerous or not and that he
should try to identify it.
Then the pilot notice an inscription "GTR 5" and asks if that means
something.

What is this "GTR 5" inscription on the ship?

thanks

(Quant) wrote:
"I just listened to the EC121 recordings of Israeli helicopter pilots
approaching the Liberty after the attack. (All in Hebrew of course).
The pilot is asking whether the ship is dangerous and is been answered
that its not known whether the ship is dangerous or not and that he
should try to identify it.
Then the pilot notice an inscription "GTR 5" and asks if that means
something.
What is this "GTR 5" inscription on the ship?"

GTR = General Technological Research. The USS Liberty AGTR-5 and the
USS Belmont AGTR-4 were the only two US ships with GTR hull numbers then
(I think), and both were USN Sigint ships.

Regards,
Chuck Huber (former member of VQ-2, which proudly flew the EC-121M Buno
135757 (JQ-14) which recorded the tapes in the "tent.")





HEAVY ATTACK COMPOSITE (VC-5,6,7,8,9) WEBSITE
http://community.webtv.net/charles379/USNComposite

FAIRECONRON ONE AND TWO (VQ-1/2) CASUALTIES
http://www.anzwers.org/free/navyscpo...r_AirCrew.html

(Quant) wrote:
"I just listened to the EC121 recordings of Israeli helicopter pilots
approaching the Liberty after the attack. snip See prior posts.

Bamford - "Body of Secrets" (intentional attack) and Cristol - "The
Liberty Incident" (fog of war) will be facing off on CNN's Wolf Blitzer
Reports this coming Sunday July 13, 2003.

One issue to be raised is whether voice tapes of the Israeli Air Force
jet pilots and Israeli Navy torpedo boat skippers exist and remain
classified. The NSA released tapes are only of the IAF helicopter
pilots, sent to check on survivors after the attack, and their command
controllers.

Chuck Huber



HEAVY ATTACK COMPOSITE (VC-5,6,7,8,9) WEBSITE
http://community.webtv.net/charles379/USNComposite

FAIRECONRON ONE AND TWO (VQ-1/2) CASUALTIES
http://www.anzwers.org/free/navyscpo...r_AirCrew.html

From: (Chuck)
Date: 7/10/2003 09:46 Pacific Daylight Time

GTR = General Technological Research. The USS Liberty AGTR-5 and the
USS Belmont AGTR-4 were the only two US ships with GTR hull numbers then
(I think), and both were USN Sigint ships.

They were the two Victory-class hulls.

Three Liberty-hull GTRs had been commissioned:

Oxford (AGTR-1), Georgetown (-2) and Jamestown (-3)

MW
-------------------------------------
"As soon as movement begins, so does the fog of war" - Edward N. Luttwak

(Quant) wrote in message . com...
I just listened to the EC121 recordings of Israeli helicopter pilots
approaching the Liberty after the attack. (All in Hebrew of course).

The pilot is asking whether the ship is dangerous and is been answered
that its not known whether the ship is dangerous or not and that he
should try to identify it.
Then the pilot notice an inscription "GTR 5" and asks if that means
something.

What is this "GTR 5" inscription on the ship?

thanks

quant,

the transcript differs a bit with your translation. The transcript
has the helicopter crewman saying "I understand the ship is not in
danger" And the MTB crewman replies: "I am not sure it is not in
danger. Are you suggesting the seriousness of it by saying this?"

is that an accurate translation?

-Steve

(Steve Richter) wrote in message . com...
(Quant) wrote in message . com...
I just listened to the EC121 recordings of Israeli helicopter pilots
approaching the Liberty after the attack. (All in Hebrew of course).

The pilot is asking whether the ship is dangerous and is been answered
that its not known whether the ship is dangerous or not and that he
should try to identify it.
Then the pilot notice an inscription "GTR 5" and asks if that means
something.

What is this "GTR 5" inscription on the ship?

thanks

quant,

the transcript differs a bit with your translation. The transcript
has the helicopter crewman saying "I understand the ship is not in
danger" And the MTB crewman replies: "I am not sure it is not in
danger. Are you suggesting the seriousness of it by saying this?"

is that an accurate translation?

-Steve


Exact translation (I'm listening to it now) between the pilot and
someone called "pagoda".

pilot: I understand that the ship is not dangerous.
Pagoda: Not sure it is not dangerous, do you identify its nationality?
pilot: Negative, it is written "GTR5".
Pagoda: Roger.
pilot: Does it mean something?
Pagoda: Negative, it means nothing.

The English transcript is clearly wrong.
The pilot asks whether the ship is dangerous and been answered that
it's not sure that it's not dangerous.
The pilot is not asking whether the ship is in danger.

(Quant) wrote in message . com...
(Steve Richter) wrote in message . com...
(Quant) wrote in message . com...
I just listened to the EC121 recordings of Israeli helicopter pilots
approaching the Liberty after the attack. (All in Hebrew of course).

The pilot is asking whether the ship is dangerous and is been answered
that its not known whether the ship is dangerous or not and that he
should try to identify it.
Then the pilot notice an inscription "GTR 5" and asks if that means
something.

What is this "GTR 5" inscription on the ship?

thanks

quant,

the transcript differs a bit with your translation. The transcript
has the helicopter crewman saying "I understand the ship is not in
danger" And the MTB crewman replies: "I am not sure it is not in
danger. Are you suggesting the seriousness of it by saying this?"

is that an accurate translation?

-Steve


Exact translation (I'm listening to it now) between the pilot and
someone called "pagoda".

pilot: I understand that the ship is not dangerous.
Pagoda: Not sure it is not dangerous, do you identify its nationality?
pilot: Negative, it is written "GTR5".
Pagoda: Roger.
pilot: Does it mean something?
Pagoda: Negative, it means nothing.

The English transcript is clearly wrong.
The pilot asks whether the ship is dangerous and been answered that
it's not sure that it's not dangerous.
The pilot is not asking whether the ship is in danger.

thats amazing that the nsa would get the translation wrong.

it also makes the actions of pagoda ( the MTBs ) even more mysterious.
Cristol says that by the time the helicopters arrive the MTBs have
identified the ship as American. Yet pagoda tells the IAF helicopters
that the ship may still be dangerous and that "GTR5" means nothing.

Would the MTBs and the helicopters have been communicating on other
channels that the NSA is not pickup up? Is what the NSA has the
extent of communication between them?

-Steve

From: (Steve Richter)
Date: 7/13/2003 19:04 Pacific Daylight Time

Cristol says that by the time the helicopters arrive the MTBs have
identified the ship as American.

It's suggested you really crack Cristol's book, or at least d/l the time line
at:

http://libertyincident.com/timeline.htm

and check the entry for 1520 Sinai.

MW
-------------------------------------
"As soon as movement begins, so does the fog of war" - Edward N. Luttwak

ojunk (Mike Weeks) wrote in message ...
From: (Steve Richter)
Date: 7/13/2003 19:04 Pacific Daylight Time

Cristol says that by the time the helicopters arrive the MTBs have
identified the ship as American.

It's suggested you really crack Cristol's book, or at least d/l the time line
at:

http://libertyincident.com/timeline.htm

and check the entry for 1520 Sinai.

Mike,

I dont think you have your facts right on this matter. At least the
facts as cristol reports them in his book. On page 57 of the TLI,
middle of the page:

Cristol tells us that at 1451 ( 10-15 minutes after the start of the
naval incidenting of the Liberty) the MTB reports that the ship may be
russian "based on writing on back of vessel". An order is made to
dispatch a tug boat from Ashdod. Then the next para starts:

"MTB 203 then recovered one of the damaged life rafts .... The raft
had "US Navy painted on it. At this point the crew of MTB 203
concluded the ship was American. CDR McGonagle testified that immed
after the ship was struck by the torpedo the torpedo boats milled
around astern of the ship at a range of 500 to 800 yards. One of the
boats signaled by flashing light in English 'Do you require
assistance?' The Liberty log reports indicate that the first offer of
help from the MTBs occurred at 1503. ...."

All this takes place before the IAF helicopters arrive on the scene at
around 1508.

Interesting that the MTBs are able to signal in english, yet they
mistake the english writing on the back of the ship for Russian.

This is all very perplexing because once the helicopters arrive on the
scene, the MTB crew, presumably Moshe Oren, dispute the statement by
815 (helicopter) that the ship is not dangerous and they tell 815 that
the hull markings of "GTR-5" means nothing.

I am interested in the truth in this matter. Can any of the Americans
who have been trusted by Israel with more information than the rest of
the American public explain these actions and statements?

-Steve

(Steve Richter) wrote in message . com...
(Quant) wrote in message . com...
(Steve Richter) wrote in message . com...
(Quant) wrote in message . com...
I just listened to the EC121 recordings of Israeli helicopter pilots
approaching the Liberty after the attack. (All in Hebrew of course).

The pilot is asking whether the ship is dangerous and is been answered
that its not known whether the ship is dangerous or not and that he
should try to identify it.
Then the pilot notice an inscription "GTR 5" and asks if that means
something.

What is this "GTR 5" inscription on the ship?

thanks

quant,

the transcript differs a bit with your translation. The transcript
has the helicopter crewman saying "I understand the ship is not in
danger" And the MTB crewman replies: "I am not sure it is not in
danger. Are you suggesting the seriousness of it by saying this?"

is that an accurate translation?

-Steve


Exact translation (I'm listening to it now) between the pilot and
someone called "pagoda".

pilot: I understand that the ship is not dangerous.
Pagoda: Not sure it is not dangerous, do you identify its nationality?
pilot: Negative, it is written "GTR5".
Pagoda: Roger.
pilot: Does it mean something?
Pagoda: Negative, it means nothing.

The English transcript is clearly wrong.
The pilot asks whether the ship is dangerous and been answered that
it's not sure that it's not dangerous.
The pilot is not asking whether the ship is in danger.

thats amazing that the nsa would get the translation wrong.

it also makes the actions of pagoda ( the MTBs )


When you're writng MTB's, do you mean "Missile Torpado Boats"?
Why do you think Pagoda means Missile Torpado Boats?

It is written specifically on NSA's site:
"a U.S. Navy EC-121, had collected voice conversations between two
Israeli helicopter pilots and the control tower at Hazor Airfield"

_control tower at Hazor Airfield_

This is how it sounds to me too.



even more mysterious.
Cristol says that by the time the helicopters arrive the MTBs have
identified the ship as American. Yet pagoda tells the IAF helicopters
that the ship may still be dangerous and that "GTR5" means nothing.

Would the MTBs and the helicopters have been communicating on other
channels that the NSA is not pickup up? Is what the NSA has the
extent of communication between them?

-Steve