Airplane prices are ridiculous, Pt.2

Within any given economy you will find
these two: 1) Price takers and 2) Price
makers.

Price takers are the sellers who must charge
within a specific range due to supply and
demand. Their prices will be set to be
compatible with the other sellers or else the
buyers will simply go to a competetor. The
prices are market driven.

On the other hand we have price makers.
These sellers operate within an environment
of limited supply or accessablility with very
high demand or necessity, such as...
electricity and water. Their prices may be
set by constraints for the public good. You
may also find price makers in any market
where there is a captive audience. For this
reason monopolies are illegal.

Similar to monopolies, oligarchies are are a
small group in which power rests effectively
within a small segment of society and these
are in effect today throughout many economic
sectors. These groups will conspire to set
prices among certain markets, yet remain
independent entities. Supply and demand is
usurped.

Then you have airplanes. This market seems
to me to fall within the price maker category.
Aviation has fallen into the rich man's
category whereby the manufacturers don't
care to mass produce and as long as there are
enough wealthy clients to satisfy them the prices
will remain high, irrespective of demand for
affordability.

Thus, the popular home-build market, kit
planes will thrive to satisfy the niche of the
market for middle-class enthusiasts, or anyone
who just doesn't want to throw 130K of their
savings into this hobby.

Problem is, a lot of people either can't, or don't
want to spend their time building. For them the
alternative is very slim. You either fly an antique,
an ugly sky slug, or you sit and watch.

One can only hope the LSA market as well as
all single engine manufacturers will one day
open their doors to affordability for the general public
and maybe then General Aviation will begin to
see a turn around.

---
Mark

Mark wrote:
Within any given economy you will find
these two: 1) Price takers and 2) Price
makers.

Price takers are the sellers who must charge
within a specific range due to supply and
demand. Their prices will be set to be
compatible with the other sellers or else the
buyers will simply go to a competetor. The
prices are market driven.

On the other hand we have price makers.
These sellers operate within an environment
of limited supply or accessablility with very
high demand or necessity, such as...
electricity and water. Their prices may be
set by constraints for the public good. You
may also find price makers in any market
where there is a captive audience. For this
reason monopolies are illegal.

Similar to monopolies, oligarchies are are a
small group in which power rests effectively
within a small segment of society and these
are in effect today throughout many economic
sectors. These groups will conspire to set
prices among certain markets, yet remain
independent entities. Supply and demand is
usurped.

Then you have airplanes. This market seems
to me to fall within the price maker category.
Aviation has fallen into the rich man's
category whereby the manufacturers don't
care to mass produce and as long as there are
enough wealthy clients to satisfy them the prices
will remain high, irrespective of demand for
affordability.

Nope.

If Piper had a way to massively undercut Cessna, Cirrus, et al on price,
they would do it in an instant.

None of the makers are producing at anywhere near their historic levels.

All of them are hurting.

And it isn't because the makers are artificially inflating prices.

Thus, the popular home-build market, kit
planes will thrive to satisfy the niche of the
market for middle-class enthusiasts, or anyone
who just doesn't want to throw 130K of their
savings into this hobby.

A decent kit will still cost you $130k by the time you are done.

Problem is, a lot of people either can't, or don't
want to spend their time building. For them the
alternative is very slim. You either fly an antique,
an ugly sky slug, or you sit and watch.

Being older doesn't make an airplane an ugly sky slug.

The Ercoupe from the 40's and 50's looks like a modern airplane.

One can only hope the LSA market as well as
all single engine manufacturers will one day
open their doors to affordability for the general public
and maybe then General Aviation will begin to
see a turn around.

It is already fiercly competitive.


--
Jim Pennino

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Mark writes:

One can only hope the LSA market as well as
all single engine manufacturers will one day
open their doors to affordability for the general public
and maybe then General Aviation will begin to
see a turn around.

There are too many restrictions on LSA to make it practical for anyone. It's
only interesting for people who can't pass a medical and are willing to
pretend they can.

Mxsmanic wrote:
Mark writes:

One can only hope the LSA market as well as
all single engine manufacturers will one day
open their doors to affordability for the general public
and maybe then General Aviation will begin to
see a turn around.

There are too many restrictions on LSA to make it practical for anyone. It's
only interesting for people who can't pass a medical and are willing to
pretend they can.

Nope, it is also of interest to people who would like to fly on the cheap.

3 gal/hour is a lot cheaper than 12 gal/hour.

There are no restrictions on LSA that would make the slightest difference
to me or anyone else that flys day VFR, which is most of GA.



--
Jim Pennino

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writes:

There are no restrictions on LSA that would make the slightest difference
to me or anyone else that flys day VFR, which is most of GA.

So are you flying LSA, given that it's cheaper and involves no restriction
that would make any difference to you?

On Sep 11, 12:47*am, Mxsmanic wrote:

There are too many restrictions on LSA to make it practical for anyone. It's
only interesting for people who can't pass a medical and are willing to
pretend they can.

Not really Mxsmanic. For instance, in the
trainers I've flown (Cessna 172's, 152's, Piper J-3's)
not once do I remember exceeding 115 mph, but
in the right LSA you could be clipping along at
near 140mph.

That's practical time-saving transportation.

---
Mark

Mark writes:

Not really Mxsmanic. For instance, in the
trainers I've flown (Cessna 172's, 152's, Piper J-3's)
not once do I remember exceeding 115 mph, but
in the right LSA you could be clipping along at
near 140mph.

That's practical time-saving transportation.

To be practical for actual transportation, you generally need an instrument
rating (unless you live out in the desert somewhere where weather is never a
factor). Sport pilots can't get that.

I guess it's okay for people flying for fun, particularly if they cannot pass
a medical.

On Sep 11, 1:14*am, wrote:
Mxsmanic wrote:
Mark writes:

One can only hope the LSA market as well as
all single engine manufacturers will one day
open their doors to affordability for the general public
and maybe then General Aviation will begin to
see a turn around.

There are too many restrictions on LSA to make it practical for anyone. It's
only interesting for people who can't pass a medical and are willing to
pretend they can.

Nope, it is also of interest to people who would like to fly on the cheap..

3 *gal/hour is a lot cheaper than 12 gal/hour.

There are no restrictions on LSA that would make the slightest difference
to me or anyone else that flys day VFR, which is most of GA.

--
Jim Pennino

Remove .spam.sux to reply.

About half of us who hold private licenses are instrument rated, which
suggests at least to me that we tend to use our general aviation
privileges in somewhat less restrictive environments than only daytime
VFR. I would NOT bet against your assertion, though, that most SEL GA
hours are under non-instrument meteorological conditions in the day
time. Mine surely are, but if that was the limitation I would not be
able to fly most of the trips I intended to.

Mxsmanic wrote:
writes:

There are no restrictions on LSA that would make the slightest difference
to me or anyone else that flys day VFR, which is most of GA.

So are you flying LSA, given that it's cheaper and involves no restriction
that would make any difference to you?

As a matter of fact, I'm concidering selling my Tiger within the next year
or so and buying a LSA for those reasons.


--
Jim Pennino

Remove .spam.sux to reply.

a wrote:
On Sep 11, 1:14Â*am, wrote:
Mxsmanic wrote:
Mark writes:

One can only hope the LSA market as well as
all single engine manufacturers will one day
open their doors to affordability for the general public
and maybe then General Aviation will begin to
see a turn around.

There are too many restrictions on LSA to make it practical for anyone. It's
only interesting for people who can't pass a medical and are willing to
pretend they can.

Nope, it is also of interest to people who would like to fly on the cheap.

3 Â*gal/hour is a lot cheaper than 12 gal/hour.

There are no restrictions on LSA that would make the slightest difference
to me or anyone else that flys day VFR, which is most of GA.

--
Jim Pennino

Remove .spam.sux to reply.

About half of us who hold private licenses are instrument rated, which
suggests at least to me that we tend to use our general aviation
privileges in somewhat less restrictive environments than only daytime
VFR. I would NOT bet against your assertion, though, that most SEL GA
hours are under non-instrument meteorological conditions in the day
time. Mine surely are, but if that was the limitation I would not be
able to fly most of the trips I intended to.

Like all of life, your mileage may vary.

I doubt that more than a small fraction of IFR rated private pilots are
current or ever use the rating in actual IMC.

I would wager that most of them got the rating because of the insurance
break you get and the value of the training.

Personnaly, I don't even like to drive in bad weather.

And since I live in SoCal, it is a rather moot point for me as other than
some early morning crud I might have to wait for a while to burn off, there
is seldom any IMC to fly in.


--
Jim Pennino

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