USMC declares AH-1Z Viper combat ready

"The US Marine Corps has finally cleared
the Bell Helicopter AH-1Z Viper for operations,
only a few weeks ahead of a decision to
launch full-rate production.

Declared "operationally effective and suitable"
on 29 September, the AH-1Z programme can
close the book on a protracted, four-year
operational evaluation (OPEVAL) process
delayed by reliability and technical glitches."

See:

http://www.flightglobal.com/articles...bat-ready.html

It's finally here! Will this be the last of the
Cobra line? Or will they start over again at
AH-1AA, AH-1BB........etc.?

On 10/1/2010 3:05 PM, wrote:
"The US Marine Corps has finally cleared
the Bell Helicopter AH-1Z Viper for operations,
only a few weeks ahead of a decision to
launch full-rate production.

Declared "operationally effective and suitable"
on 29 September, the AH-1Z programme can
close the book on a protracted, four-year
operational evaluation (OPEVAL) process
delayed by reliability and technical glitches."

See:

http://www.flightglobal.com/articles...bat-ready.html

It's finally here! Will this be the last of the
Cobra line? Or will they start over again at
AH-1AA, AH-1BB........etc.?


A few years ago, I witnessed a mock fight between the New Apache
and the old AH-1U. Short fight. The Cobra ran rampant over the
Apache. It's quicker, nimbler, smaller, etc.. and still packs
quite a whollop. I think it was a mistake for the Army to rely
almost soley on the Apaches when a cheaper AH-1 can do pretty
much the same job. Of course, they've asked the Apache to do
much more than it really should and have gotten off pretty lucky
a couple of times but it's going to bite them again.

Like when they ordered the Apaches to go after the Iraqis best
just outside of Bagdad. All 40 came back damaged and one was
lost. The results? Those Iraqi troops were still there. It took
a bunch of fast movers to plow the fields. After that, the Army
just walked in, taking body counts and prisoners.

On Oct 1, 2:46*pm, Daryl Hunt wrote:
On 10/1/2010 3:05 PM, wrote:



"The US Marine Corps has finally cleared
the Bell Helicopter AH-1Z Viper for operations,
only a few weeks ahead of a decision to
launch full-rate production.

Declared "operationally effective and suitable"
on 29 September, the AH-1Z programme can
close the book on a protracted, four-year
operational evaluation (OPEVAL) process
delayed by reliability and technical glitches."

See:

http://www.flightglobal.com/articles...usmc-declares-...

It's finally here! *Will this be the last of the
Cobra line? *Or will they start over again at
AH-1AA, AH-1BB........etc.? * *

A few years ago, I witnessed a mock fight between the New Apache
and the old AH-1U. *Short fight. *The Cobra ran rampant over the
Apache. *It's quicker, nimbler, smaller, etc.. and still packs
quite a whollop. *I think it was a mistake for the Army to rely
almost soley on the Apaches when a cheaper AH-1 can do pretty
much the same job. *Of course, they've asked the Apache to do
much more than it really should and have gotten off pretty lucky
a couple of times but it's going to bite them again.


Didn't the Army prefer the Apache because it's mast-mounted
radar allowed it to fire at tanks from behind hills and such?

On 10/2/2010 12:55 AM, wrote:
On Oct 1, 2:46 pm, Daryl wrote:
On 10/1/2010 3:05 PM, wrote:



"The US Marine Corps has finally cleared
the Bell Helicopter AH-1Z Viper for operations,
only a few weeks ahead of a decision to
launch full-rate production.

Declared "operationally effective and suitable"
on 29 September, the AH-1Z programme can
close the book on a protracted, four-year
operational evaluation (OPEVAL) process
delayed by reliability and technical glitches."

See:

http://www.flightglobal.com/articles...usmc-declares-...

It's finally here! Will this be the last of the
Cobra line? Or will they start over again at
AH-1AA, AH-1BB........etc.?

A few years ago, I witnessed a mock fight between the New Apache
and the old AH-1U. Short fight. The Cobra ran rampant over the
Apache. It's quicker, nimbler, smaller, etc.. and still packs
quite a whollop. I think it was a mistake for the Army to rely
almost soley on the Apaches when a cheaper AH-1 can do pretty
much the same job. Of course, they've asked the Apache to do
much more than it really should and have gotten off pretty lucky
a couple of times but it's going to bite them again.


Didn't the Army prefer the Apache because it's mast-mounted
radar allowed it to fire at tanks from behind hills and such?

Actually the Longbow masthead contains a radar that is used to hand
off to Hellfire that can fly over the hill behind which the Apache is
lurking. It can also be used to recce before the Apache pops up and uses
other weapons.

http://www.jolly-rogers.com/airpower/ah-64d/64d-av.htm

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

On 10/1/2010 11:55 PM, wrote:
On Oct 1, 2:46 pm, Daryl wrote:
On 10/1/2010 3:05 PM, wrote:



"The US Marine Corps has finally cleared
the Bell Helicopter AH-1Z Viper for operations,
only a few weeks ahead of a decision to
launch full-rate production.

Declared "operationally effective and suitable"
on 29 September, the AH-1Z programme can
close the book on a protracted, four-year
operational evaluation (OPEVAL) process
delayed by reliability and technical glitches."

See:

http://www.flightglobal.com/articles...usmc-declares-...

It's finally here! Will this be the last of the
Cobra line? Or will they start over again at
AH-1AA, AH-1BB........etc.?

A few years ago, I witnessed a mock fight between the New Apache
and the old AH-1U. Short fight. The Cobra ran rampant over the
Apache. It's quicker, nimbler, smaller, etc.. and still packs
quite a whollop. I think it was a mistake for the Army to rely
almost soley on the Apaches when a cheaper AH-1 can do pretty
much the same job. Of course, they've asked the Apache to do
much more than it really should and have gotten off pretty lucky
a couple of times but it's going to bite them again.


Didn't the Army prefer the Apache because it's mast-mounted
radar allowed it to fire at tanks from behind hills and such?

You are thinking of the Long Bow. That came after the Apache was
well into the Army inventory. The Long Bow finally lived up to
the Apaches hopes.

The AH-64D was introduced in 1992. The Long Bow was introduced
in 1997. 232 A and D models were converted to Long Bow specs.

You would think that the Apache Long Bow could take on a Cobra
heads up. While the Apache was progressing so was the Cobra.
And the Cobra is still more agile and nimble being much lighter.

The Apache was sought after by the ARmy for it's superior
firepower. It also was supposed to be better in flight. It
isn't. It's too heavy for a dog on dog fight in a Helo war.
While the Apache is heavily armored, it is still suseptable to
the weapons carried on the more nimble Cobra. If you loaded out
an Apache with the armor to take hits from the Cobras 20mm M61
Vulcan Cannon the Apache would have trouble flying being so laid
down with armor. The same goes for the Cobra against the 30mm
chain gun of the Apache.

Each one has a different mission that it does better than the
other. The Marines like to get down and dirty and their Ground
troops and air assets are all under one commander. AFter hearing
many of the ARmy types speak out, this is what they want as well
but don't have. They may have command over the Apaches but the
fast movers are all Marine, Navy or AF. I think if the Air
Assets were commanded by the ground commanders we would have the
same things happen that broke the AF away from the ARmy in the
first place. The Army is very, very large and the Ground CO
isn't expected to understand or consider all things in the Air
Assets. The Marines are smaller and they can do this. Give the
CO a break. He has enough going on already.

Il 01/10/2010 23:05, ha scritto:

It's finally here! Will this be the last of the
Cobra line? Or will they start over again at
AH-1AA, AH-1BB........etc.?

the latter, out of question, AA, AB, AC and so on...

It's a design on par with the .50 M2

Best regards from Italy,
dott. Piergiorgio.

"dott.Piergiorgio" wrote in
message ...
Il 01/10/2010 23:05, ha scritto:

It's finally here! Will this be the last of the
Cobra line? Or will they start over again at
AH-1AA, AH-1BB........etc.?

the latter, out of question, AA, AB, AC and so on...

It's a design on par with the .50 M2

Best regards from Italy,
dott. Piergiorgio.

AH-A1M1

On Oct 2, 2:21*am, Daryl Hunt wrote:

Each one has a different mission that it does better than the
other.

Also, the Cobra's base is a ship. You can get more AH1s in the hangar
of a LHD than you can get AH64s.

On 10/3/2010 2:25 PM, Alan Nordin wrote:
On Oct 2, 2:21 am, Daryl wrote:

Each one has a different mission that it does better than the
other.

Also, the Cobra's base is a ship. You can get more AH1s in the hangar
of a LHD than you can get AH64s.

Sounds like you spent a day or two in one of those floating Chow
Halls.

On Oct 2, 2:21*am, Daryl Hunt wrote:

You would think that the Apache Long Bow could take on a Cobra
heads up. *While the Apache was progressing so was the Cobra.
And the Cobra is still more agile and nimble being much lighter.

I don't believe that chopper's air-to-air capability matters that
much. Before they could get into a merge they would have to survive
all of the fighters, air defense and golden BB's that are a much
bigger concern than another chopper's dogfighting ability. And for
that, the Cobra has a smaller profile so it should be less vulnerable
to BB's, but they are both equally vulnerable to fighters, MANPADs,
Shilkas, etc.

Chris Manteuffel