Mfg Data Plate Question

I'm looking at a certificated aircraft for purchase.

One thing I noticed was that the "normal" engraved metal manufacturer's data
plate that's usually located under the horizontal stabilizer is missing. In
its place is an engraved plastic plate with the serial number, model number,
etc - the kind of engraved plastic you think of for office nameplates.

Is this legal? Warning flags? Is this the *only* location of official
serial number documentation?

Thanks;
Carl

What you're seeing is not the "normal" data plate. It is the
mandated plate so they can tell whether you're a drug runner or
not. The manufacturer's data plate is elsewhere.

Don't ask how that plate on the outside of the fuselage keeps you from
being a drug runner, but that's why it's there. It's like the big N-numbers.

Drug runners wouldn't dare alter those things - that would be illegal.


In article , "Carl Orton"
wrote:
I'm looking at a certificated aircraft for purchase.

One thing I noticed was that the "normal" engraved metal manufacturer's data
plate that's usually located under the horizontal stabilizer is missing. In
its place is an engraved plastic plate with the serial number, model number,
etc - the kind of engraved plastic you think of for office nameplates.

Is this legal? Warning flags? Is this the *only* location of official
serial number documentation?

Thanks;
Carl

Carl Orton wrote:

One thing I noticed was that the "normal" engraved metal manufacturer's data
plate that's usually located under the horizontal stabilizer is missing. In
its place is an engraved plastic plate with the serial number, model number,
etc - the kind of engraved plastic you think of for office nameplates.

This is normal for many aircraft more than about ten years old. Back in the
early 90s, the FAA decided that every modern aircraft had to have certain data
visible outside the plane, and the empennage became the accepted location for
this data. Most aircraft had something like what you are seeing added to meet
the regulation. The Cessna 150 I owned simply had the pertinent information
painted back there.

George Patterson
You can dress a hog in a tuxedo, but he still wants to roll in the mud.

Not quite. This was the subject of discussion at the IA renewal clinic last
year. The FAA could care less if it is there or not. The DEA is the one with
the regulation and the FAA can not and will not enforce DEA regulation. Just
like FAA can not and will not enforce FCC (old radios) regulations.

The required manufacturer's data plate is in the forward port side of the
aircraft, generally on the sill between the door jamb and the floorboard. The
rule is that plate is the ONLY original part of the aircraft that must be on
board the aircraft. You could buy the nameplate and build an entire aircraft
around it with used/owner-manufactured/new parts and it would be a certificated
aircraft.

I shared hangar space with an airline pilot that acquired (don't ask how) the
data plate from a Jenny. Nothing more, just the plate. He spent ten years of
spare time building a perfectly legal Jenny which was absolutely pristine.

Unfortunately, just about the time he completed it, he was coming home
space-available on PSA 182 ...

Jim




-This is normal for many aircraft more than about ten years old. Back in the
-early 90s, the FAA decided that every modern aircraft had to have certain data
-visible outside the plane, and the empennage became the accepted location for
-this data. Most aircraft had something like what you are seeing added to meet
-the regulation. The Cessna 150 I owned simply had the pertinent information
-painted back there.
Jim Weir (A&P/IA, CFI, & other good alphabet soup)
VP Eng RST Pres. Cyberchapter EAA Tech. Counselor
http://www.rst-engr.com

Jim Weir wrote in
:

Just like FAA can not and will not enforce
FCC (old radios) regulations.

Speaking of old radios, I tried to track down the old Cyberhangar web site
you used to maintain... the one that had pinouts for a lot of the old
radios. All the links I found (including the one from RST) were dead.

Is the information still around?

tnx, jmk


-----------------------------------------------
James M. Knox
TriSoft ph 512-385-0316
1109-A Shady Lane fax 512-366-4331
Austin, Tx 78721
-----------------------------------------------

Not quite. This was the subject of discussion at the IA renewal clinic last
year. The FAA could care less if it is there or not. The DEA is the one
with
the regulation and the FAA can not and will not enforce DEA regulation. Just
ike FAA can not and will not enforce FCC (old radios) regulations.

Then why is the regulation requiring an external data plate a part of the FAR
45 rule? Maybe your FSDO doesn't want to enforce it but mine will. The
impetus for the rule came from the DEA and Customs but the rule is the FAAs and
in the New England region they made real sure that we were all complying with
it back in the '80s when it came out.

The required manufacturer's data plate is in the forward port side of the
aircraft, generally on the sill between the door jamb and the floorboard.

Not on any Beechcraft or Piper or Mooney or Commander and not on many Cessna's
either though on those it is not far from the floor and is on the left side.

John Dupre'

(JDupre5762)
shared these priceless pearls of wisdom:

-Not quite. This was the subject of discussion at the IA renewal clinic last
-year. The FAA could care less if it is there or not. The DEA is the one
-with
-the regulation and the FAA can not and will not enforce DEA regulation. Just
-ike FAA can not and will not enforce FCC (old radios) regulations.
-
-Then why is the regulation requiring an external data plate a part of the FAR
-45 rule? Maybe your FSDO doesn't want to enforce it but mine will. The
-impetus for the rule came from the DEA and Customs but the rule is the FAAs
and
-in the New England region they made real sure that we were all complying with
-it back in the '80s when it came out.

The part 45 rule said that for aircraft certificated after 1988 (which damned
few GA aircraft are) the required data plate had to be in one of two
places...external near the rearmost door OR by the tailfeathers. For those
aircraft certificated prior to this, it could be either INTERNAL or EXTERNAL at
the option of the person/company doing the certification.

Having said that, any aircraft with a legal manufacturer's data plate on the
aircraft does NOT NEED a second data plate back by the tailfeathers. I just
reread part 45, and nowhere does it demand a second data plate. Your FSDO may
be exerting their fifedom above and beyond the law, but there is no FAA
requirement for the second data plate.

Jim
Jim Weir (A&P/IA, CFI, & other good alphabet soup)
VP Eng RST Pres. Cyberchapter EAA Tech. Counselor
http://www.rst-engr.com

On Sun, 02 Nov 2003 10:14:44 -0800, Jim Weir wrote:

The required manufacturer's data plate is in the forward port side of the
aircraft, generally on the sill between the door jamb and the floorboard.

Not on my airplane.


Ron (EPM) (N5843Q, Mooney M20E) (CP, ASEL, ASES, IA)

You can write it on the empennage with a Sharpie and be perfectly legal.
I did it myself when the mechanic wanted an arm and a leg for a metal plate.



One thing I noticed was that the "normal" engraved metal manufacturer's
data
plate that's usually located under the horizontal stabilizer is missing.
In
its place is an engraved plastic plate with the serial number, model
number,
etc - the kind of engraved plastic you think of for office nameplates.

Is this legal? Warning flags? Is this the *only* location of official
serial number documentation?

Thanks;
Carl

A pre 1988 aircraft does need to have the aircraft type and serial number
visible on the exterior of the aircraft. It does not have to be in the form of
a plate but the data has to be there.

FAR 45-13
(d) On aircraft manufactured before March 7, 1988, the identification plate
required by paragraph (a) of this section may be secured at an accessible
exterior or interior location near an entrance, if the model designation and
builder's serial number are also displayed on the aircraft fuselage exterior.
The model designation and builder's serial number must be legible to a person
on the ground and must be located either adjacent to and aft of the rear-most
entrance door or on the fuselage near the tail surfaces. The model designation
and builder's serial number must be displayed in such a manner that they are
not likely to be defaced or removed during normal service.

John Dupre

Having said that, any aircraft with a legal manufacturer's data plate on the
aircraft does NOT NEED a second data plate back by the tailfeathers. I just
reread part 45, and nowhere does it demand a second data plate. Your FSDO
may
be exerting their fifedom above and beyond the law, but there is no FAA
requirement for the second data plate.

Jim
Jim Weir (A&P/IA, CFI, & other good alphabet soup)
VP Eng RST Pres. Cyberchapter EAA Tech. Counselor