The rudder waggle signal does not work

The towplane rudder waggle signal has done more harm than good. We
have spent at least ten years trying to educate our pilots about this
signal, and we have failed. It is time we got rid of the signal.

http://www.ntsb.gov/aviationquery/br...15X11650&key=1

-Pat

So... What would you have the tow pilot do, release the glider or,
possibly, crash into the trees? Either way, the glider is down.

I've been away from soaring for 9 of the previous 10 years, but it's my
recollection that the rudder wag was not an official signal - only a
suggestion. Maybe it should be made an official signal and tested on BFRs
and check rides.

"Pat Russell" wrote in message
...
The towplane rudder waggle signal has done more harm than good. We
have spent at least ten years trying to educate our pilots about this
signal, and we have failed. It is time we got rid of the signal.

http://www.ntsb.gov/aviationquery/br...15X11650&key=1

-Pat

The Rudder Waggle is part of the standard US Soaring signals.

http://www.soaringsafety.org/prevention/signals.html

"Dan Marotta" wrote in message
...
So... What would you have the tow pilot do, release the glider or, possibly,
crash into the trees? Either way, the glider is down.

Require radios and use them. Compared to gliders, they are dirt cheap.


I've been away from soaring for 9 of the previous 10 years, but it's my
recollection that the rudder wag was not an official signal - only a
suggestion. Maybe it should be made an official signal and tested on BFRs and
check rides.

It's been a few years since I was an active CFIG, but we tested the rudder
waggle on every flight review. I don't recall anyone failing to release when
they got the waggle except for a few cases when they were briefed immediately
before the flight.. As far as I can see, the signal is well intended, but a
complete failure.

Vaughn

On Jul 22, 2:46*pm, "vaughn" wrote:
"Dan Marotta" wrote in message

...

So... *What would you have the tow pilot do, release the glider or, possibly,
crash into the trees? *Either way, the glider is down.

Require radios and use them. *Compared to gliders, they are dirt cheap.



I've been away from soaring for 9 of the previous 10 years, but it's my
recollection that the rudder wag was not an official signal - only a
suggestion. *Maybe it should be made an official signal and tested on BFRs and
check rides.

It's been a few years since I was an active CFIG, but we tested the rudder
waggle on every flight review. *I don't recall anyone failing to release when
they got the waggle except for a few cases when they were briefed immediately
before the flight.. *As far as I can see, the signal is well intended, but a
complete failure.

Vaughn

Uh I assume that was an unintended typo and you meant failing to
release when they got the rock-off signal?

Darryl

On Jul 22, 2:53*pm, Darryl Ramm wrote:
On Jul 22, 2:46*pm, "vaughn" wrote:





"Dan Marotta" wrote in message

...

So... *What would you have the tow pilot do, release the glider or, possibly,
crash into the trees? *Either way, the glider is down.

Require radios and use them. *Compared to gliders, they are dirt cheap.

I've been away from soaring for 9 of the previous 10 years, but it's my
recollection that the rudder wag was not an official signal - only a
suggestion. *Maybe it should be made an official signal and tested on BFRs and
check rides.

It's been a few years since I was an active CFIG, but we tested the rudder
waggle on every flight review. *I don't recall anyone failing to release when
they got the waggle except for a few cases when they were briefed immediately
before the flight.. *As far as I can see, the signal is well intended, but a
complete failure.

Vaughn

Uh I assume that was an unintended typo and you meant failing to
release when they got the rock-off signal?

Darryl- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

No I believe he meant that everyone released by mistake...
And this was not even under real emergency pressure.
Exactly my point.

Ramy

Isn't everyone missing the cause of this accident and ones like it?

Written, Pre-take-off checklist is all that is needed to prevent this
accident from ever happening. It is the most basic of pilot
duties........


The pilot made at least 5 obvious (easily preventable) errors leading
up to the accident.

1. preflight inspection (usually states spoilers/flaps to take off
position)
2. pre take off check list..."spoilers closed and locked"
3. During tow, Left hand should be on, near, behind, spoiler handle to
sense unwanted spoiler opening
4. Situational awareness of poor climb should result in immediate
spoiler check
5. Pilot should be familiar with signals


Pilot should also include "enmergency plan" in take off check
list ....planning for emergencies such as rope break, tow plane wave
off signal, canopy opening, tow plane loss of power, and spoilers
opening (and signal form tow plane)....none of these should cause any
major concern if they happen...If the pilot is properly prepared..

Cookie

"Darryl Ramm" wrote in message
...
It's been a few years since I was an active CFIG, but we tested the rudder
waggle on every flight review. I don't recall anyone failing to release when
they got the waggle except for a few cases when they were briefed immediately
before the flight.. As far as I can see, the signal is well intended, but a
complete failure.

Vaughn

Uh I assume that was an unintended typo and you meant failing to
release when they got the rock-off signal?

Nope, I meant just what I said. Virtually all pilots did the wrong thing,
(released when the got the rudder waggle) unless they were briefed right before
the flight and knew what was going to happen. We would typically do this as an
excercise on the first "pattern" flight of the flight review. On the ground, we
would then have a productive discussion about that signal

Vaughn

On Jul 22, 6:34*pm, "vaughn" wrote:
"Darryl Ramm" wrote in message

...

It's been a few years since I was an active CFIG, but we tested the rudder
waggle on every flight review. I don't recall anyone failing to release when
they got the waggle except for a few cases when they were briefed immediately
before the flight.. As far as I can see, the signal is well intended, but a
complete failure.

Vaughn

Uh I assume that was an unintended typo and you meant failing to
release when they got the rock-off signal?

Nope, I meant just what I said. *Virtually all pilots did the wrong thing,
(released when the got the rudder waggle) unless they were briefed right before
the flight and knew what was going to happen. *We would typically do this as an
excercise on the first "pattern" flight of the flight review. *On the ground, we
would then have a productive discussion about that signal

Vaughn

Thanks. Jeez that is sad. I totally advocate the tow pilot doing
nothing if low and that is possible, then radio, then rudder fan if
needed....

Darryl

Originally Posted by vaughn[_3_]

"Dan Marotta" wrote in message
...
So... What would you have the tow pilot do, release the glider or, possibly,
crash into the trees? Either way, the glider is down.

Require radios and use them. Compared to gliders, they are dirt cheap.


I've been away from soaring for 9 of the previous 10 years, but it's my
recollection that the rudder wag was not an official signal - only a
suggestion. Maybe it should be made an official signal and tested on BFRs and
check rides.

It's been a few years since I was an active CFIG, but we tested the rudder
waggle on every flight review. I don't recall anyone failing to release when
they got the waggle except for a few cases when they were briefed immediately
before the flight.. As far as I can see, the signal is well intended, but a
complete failure.

Vaughn

Blaming the signal for the pilot doing the wrong thing is just like shooting the messenger. It's encumbent on the individual pilots to actually engage their brains and study and review different aspects of operating a sailplane safely.

If you only engage your brain when in the cockpit you are missing out on reviewing your own flight performances and missing the benefits of visualising and mentally rehearsing vital actions before they are needed.

Colin