Pre-buy Inspection

My new partner and I are looking at a 1975 Mooney M20C. It is a nicely
upgraded IFR plane with a 400 hour O-360 engine. It is a rather high
time airplane (7000) hours and the price reflects this fact. It is being
sold by the owner of the FBO we fly out of for one of his friends. They
just finished up an annual inspection on it.

My IFR instructor has owned Mooneys in the past and even had the M20C
for years. He suggested that we fly the plane to Byerly Aviation in
Peoria IL (a little over an hour flight from Indianapolis) and have them
do the pre-buy. He said it would probably cost in the $500.00 range. My
partner and I think it is a good idea too. We are both buying our first
plane and think the money would be well spent.

One of the cylinders has a compression of 62 while the others are in the
70's. This concerns me even though it is within tolerances. Of course we
would hate to buy something that needed immediate major engine work. The
plane has not flown much for the past 2 years so I am wondering if after
flying the thing a while if the compression might come back some
(probably wishful thinking I know).

I am interested in opinions or experiences in first plane purchases.
Experience with Byerly Aviation. Or comments on the engine situation I
described. Thanks!!

Jon Kraus
PP-ASEL-IA
Student aircraft purchaser

Thanks Kyle. It would be a haggling point though. JK

Kyle Boatright wrote:

"Jon Kraus" wrote in message
...

My new partner and I are looking at a 1975 Mooney M20C. It is a nicely
upgraded IFR plane with a 400 hour O-360 engine. It is a rather high
time airplane (7000) hours and the price reflects this fact. It is being
sold by the owner of the FBO we fly out of for one of his friends. They
just finished up an annual inspection on it.

My IFR instructor has owned Mooneys in the past and even had the M20C
for years. He suggested that we fly the plane to Byerly Aviation in
Peoria IL (a little over an hour flight from Indianapolis) and have them
do the pre-buy. He said it would probably cost in the $500.00 range. My
partner and I think it is a good idea too. We are both buying our first
plane and think the money would be well spent.

One of the cylinders has a compression of 62 while the others are in the
70's. This concerns me even though it is within tolerances. Of course we
would hate to buy something that needed immediate major engine work. The
plane has not flown much for the past 2 years so I am wondering if after
flying the thing a while if the compression might come back some
(probably wishful thinking I know).

I am interested in opinions or experiences in first plane purchases.
Experience with Byerly Aviation. Or comments on the engine situation I
described. Thanks!!

Jon Kraus
PP-ASEL-IA
Student aircraft purchaser


John,

A low compression cylinder isn't a big deal, assuming everything else checks
out. Maybe the compression will come back up with use, maybe you'll need to
pull the jug and have something fixed. The pre-buy might give you the
answer to that question. In any case, pulling and repairing a cylinder
isn't *that* big of a deal.

KB

"Jon Kraus" wrote in message
...
My new partner and I are looking at a 1975 Mooney M20C. It is a nicely
upgraded IFR plane with a 400 hour O-360 engine. It is a rather high
time airplane (7000) hours and the price reflects this fact. It is being
sold by the owner of the FBO we fly out of for one of his friends. They
just finished up an annual inspection on it.

My IFR instructor has owned Mooneys in the past and even had the M20C
for years. He suggested that we fly the plane to Byerly Aviation in
Peoria IL (a little over an hour flight from Indianapolis) and have them
do the pre-buy. He said it would probably cost in the $500.00 range. My
partner and I think it is a good idea too. We are both buying our first
plane and think the money would be well spent.

One of the cylinders has a compression of 62 while the others are in the
70's. This concerns me even though it is within tolerances. Of course we
would hate to buy something that needed immediate major engine work. The
plane has not flown much for the past 2 years so I am wondering if after
flying the thing a while if the compression might come back some
(probably wishful thinking I know).

I am interested in opinions or experiences in first plane purchases.
Experience with Byerly Aviation. Or comments on the engine situation I
described. Thanks!!

Jon Kraus
PP-ASEL-IA
Student aircraft purchaser

John,

A low compression cylinder isn't a big deal, assuming everything else checks
out. Maybe the compression will come back up with use, maybe you'll need to
pull the jug and have something fixed. The pre-buy might give you the
answer to that question. In any case, pulling and repairing a cylinder
isn't *that* big of a deal.

KB

It should not be a haggling point if you were already told about it.
Negotiations come into play when you find something that you didn't know
about.

I'd be pretty annoyed if someone flew my plane 100 miles away for a pre-buy,
and came back only to dicker about something I already disclosed.


"Jon Kraus" wrote in message
...
Thanks Kyle. It would be a haggling point though. JK

Kyle Boatright wrote:

"Jon Kraus" wrote in message
...

My new partner and I are looking at a 1975 Mooney M20C. It is a nicely
upgraded IFR plane with a 400 hour O-360 engine. It is a rather high
time airplane (7000) hours and the price reflects this fact. It is being
sold by the owner of the FBO we fly out of for one of his friends. They
just finished up an annual inspection on it.

My IFR instructor has owned Mooneys in the past and even had the M20C
for years. He suggested that we fly the plane to Byerly Aviation in
Peoria IL (a little over an hour flight from Indianapolis) and have them
do the pre-buy. He said it would probably cost in the $500.00 range. My
partner and I think it is a good idea too. We are both buying our first
plane and think the money would be well spent.

One of the cylinders has a compression of 62 while the others are in the
70's. This concerns me even though it is within tolerances. Of course we
would hate to buy something that needed immediate major engine work. The
plane has not flown much for the past 2 years so I am wondering if after
flying the thing a while if the compression might come back some
(probably wishful thinking I know).

I am interested in opinions or experiences in first plane purchases.
Experience with Byerly Aviation. Or comments on the engine situation I
described. Thanks!!

Jon Kraus
PP-ASEL-IA
Student aircraft purchaser


John,

A low compression cylinder isn't a big deal, assuming everything else
checks
out. Maybe the compression will come back up with use, maybe you'll
need to
pull the jug and have something fixed. The pre-buy might give you the
answer to that question. In any case, pulling and repairing a cylinder
isn't *that* big of a deal.

KB

So as a seller you would lower the price immediately even though you
didn't know why the low reading? Example: Say as the seller you wanted
$50,000 for the aircraft before you knew of a possible engine issue.
When you found out about the low compression but didn't know why you
would lower the price? Just trying to understand why you would be
annoyed. I'm not in this to **** off the seller but I don't want to pay
for something that is already existing either. Thanks !! JK

Steve Foley wrote:

It should not be a haggling point if you were already told about it.
Negotiations come into play when you find something that you didn't know
about.

I'd be pretty annoyed if someone flew my plane 100 miles away for a pre-buy,
and came back only to dicker about something I already disclosed.


"Jon Kraus" wrote in message
...

Thanks Kyle. It would be a haggling point though. JK

Kyle Boatright wrote:


"Jon Kraus" wrote in message
...


My new partner and I are looking at a 1975 Mooney M20C. It is a nicely
upgraded IFR plane with a 400 hour O-360 engine. It is a rather high
time airplane (7000) hours and the price reflects this fact. It is being
sold by the owner of the FBO we fly out of for one of his friends. They
just finished up an annual inspection on it.

My IFR instructor has owned Mooneys in the past and even had the M20C
for years. He suggested that we fly the plane to Byerly Aviation in
Peoria IL (a little over an hour flight from Indianapolis) and have them
do the pre-buy. He said it would probably cost in the $500.00 range. My
partner and I think it is a good idea too. We are both buying our first
plane and think the money would be well spent.

One of the cylinders has a compression of 62 while the others are in the
70's. This concerns me even though it is within tolerances. Of course we
would hate to buy something that needed immediate major engine work. The
plane has not flown much for the past 2 years so I am wondering if after
flying the thing a while if the compression might come back some
(probably wishful thinking I know).

I am interested in opinions or experiences in first plane purchases.
Experience with Byerly Aviation. Or comments on the engine situation I
described. Thanks!!

Jon Kraus
PP-ASEL-IA
Student aircraft purchaser


John,

A low compression cylinder isn't a big deal, assuming everything else

checks

out. Maybe the compression will come back up with use, maybe you'll

need to

pull the jug and have something fixed. The pre-buy might give you the
answer to that question. In any case, pulling and repairing a cylinder
isn't *that* big of a deal.

KB

So as a seller you would lower the price immediately even though you
didn't know why the low reading? Example: Say as the seller you wanted
$50,000 for the aircraft before you knew of a possible engine issue.
When you found out about the low compression, but didn't know why it was
low, you would lower the asking price say to $48,000? Just trying to
understand why you would be annoyed. I'm not in this to **** off the
seller but I don't want to pay for something that is already existing
either. Thanks !! JK

Steve Foley wrote:

It should not be a haggling point if you were already told about it.
Negotiations come into play when you find something that you didn't know
about.

I'd be pretty annoyed if someone flew my plane 100 miles away for a pre-buy,
and came back only to dicker about something I already disclosed.


"Jon Kraus" wrote in message
...

Thanks Kyle. It would be a haggling point though. JK

Kyle Boatright wrote:


"Jon Kraus" wrote in message
...


My new partner and I are looking at a 1975 Mooney M20C. It is a nicely
upgraded IFR plane with a 400 hour O-360 engine. It is a rather high
time airplane (7000) hours and the price reflects this fact. It is being
sold by the owner of the FBO we fly out of for one of his friends. They
just finished up an annual inspection on it.

My IFR instructor has owned Mooneys in the past and even had the M20C
for years. He suggested that we fly the plane to Byerly Aviation in
Peoria IL (a little over an hour flight from Indianapolis) and have them
do the pre-buy. He said it would probably cost in the $500.00 range. My
partner and I think it is a good idea too. We are both buying our first
plane and think the money would be well spent.

One of the cylinders has a compression of 62 while the others are in the
70's. This concerns me even though it is within tolerances. Of course we
would hate to buy something that needed immediate major engine work. The
plane has not flown much for the past 2 years so I am wondering if after
flying the thing a while if the compression might come back some
(probably wishful thinking I know).

I am interested in opinions or experiences in first plane purchases.
Experience with Byerly Aviation. Or comments on the engine situation I
described. Thanks!!

Jon Kraus
PP-ASEL-IA
Student aircraft purchaser


John,

A low compression cylinder isn't a big deal, assuming everything else

checks

out. Maybe the compression will come back up with use, maybe you'll

need to

pull the jug and have something fixed. The pre-buy might give you the
answer to that question. In any case, pulling and repairing a cylinder
isn't *that* big of a deal.

KB

Jon Kraus wrote:


Jon Kraus
PP-ASEL-IA
Student aircraft purchaser


Although apparently not usually part of a pre-buy, may I suggest you
ask the inspector the check the run-out of each engine?

I had an 'incident' with my BC-12D which caused the A&P to check the
engine run-out and it was out of limits, which required that we open
the engine and look around. Turned out the flange/hub was not exactly
perpendicular to the shaft, and since I'm running a wooden prop and it
was in fine shape, the thought was something happened long ago and
went unnoticed until now. - Mike

In article ,
Jon Kraus wrote:
One of the cylinders has a compression of 62 while the others are in the
70's. This concerns me even though it is within tolerances.

What should concern you is if the leak is past the valves rather than by
the rings.

--
Ben Jackson

http://www.ben.com/

The seller is generally considered liable for correcting airworthiness
issues. Lower compression in one cylinder is not an airworthiness item.

Mike
MU-2


"Jon Kraus" wrote in message
...
So as a seller you would lower the price immediately even though you
didn't know why the low reading? Example: Say as the seller you wanted
$50,000 for the aircraft before you knew of a possible engine issue.
When you found out about the low compression but didn't know why you
would lower the price? Just trying to understand why you would be
annoyed. I'm not in this to **** off the seller but I don't want to pay
for something that is already existing either. Thanks !! JK

Steve Foley wrote:

It should not be a haggling point if you were already told about it.
Negotiations come into play when you find something that you didn't know
about.

I'd be pretty annoyed if someone flew my plane 100 miles away for a
pre-buy,
and came back only to dicker about something I already disclosed.


"Jon Kraus" wrote in message
...

Thanks Kyle. It would be a haggling point though. JK

Kyle Boatright wrote:


"Jon Kraus" wrote in message
...


My new partner and I are looking at a 1975 Mooney M20C. It is a nicely
upgraded IFR plane with a 400 hour O-360 engine. It is a rather high
time airplane (7000) hours and the price reflects this fact. It is
being
sold by the owner of the FBO we fly out of for one of his friends.
They
just finished up an annual inspection on it.

My IFR instructor has owned Mooneys in the past and even had the M20C
for years. He suggested that we fly the plane to Byerly Aviation in
Peoria IL (a little over an hour flight from Indianapolis) and have
them
do the pre-buy. He said it would probably cost in the $500.00 range.
My
partner and I think it is a good idea too. We are both buying our
first
plane and think the money would be well spent.

One of the cylinders has a compression of 62 while the others are in
the
70's. This concerns me even though it is within tolerances. Of course
we
would hate to buy something that needed immediate major engine work.
The
plane has not flown much for the past 2 years so I am wondering if
after
flying the thing a while if the compression might come back some
(probably wishful thinking I know).

I am interested in opinions or experiences in first plane purchases.
Experience with Byerly Aviation. Or comments on the engine situation I
described. Thanks!!

Jon Kraus
PP-ASEL-IA
Student aircraft purchaser


John,

A low compression cylinder isn't a big deal, assuming everything else

checks

out. Maybe the compression will come back up with use, maybe you'll

need to

pull the jug and have something fixed. The pre-buy might give you the
answer to that question. In any case, pulling and repairing a cylinder
isn't *that* big of a deal.

KB

Jon Kraus wrote in message . ..
My new partner and I are looking at a 1975 Mooney M20C. It is a nicely
upgraded IFR plane with a 400 hour O-360 engine. It is a rather high
time airplane (7000) hours and the price reflects this fact. It is being
sold by the owner of the FBO we fly out of for one of his friends. They
just finished up an annual inspection on it.

A Mooney is a pretty hard plane to get a good pre-buy on. You really
need to go to a Mooney specialty place. There are great hidden places
underneath where fatal rust can hide from all but the good specialist.
You also need the tank sealant inspected. Some leaking is normal but
you are concerned with the condition of the sealant. A reseal will
cost around $9000. You are looking for pealing and flaking of the
sealant. Pin holes are normal. A good AD search should be done on the
gear actuator. The AD is VERY complicated in that some actuators are
covered and others not. Sometimes the inside is the same. You at least
want to be sure the actuators are lubed really good. Very few A&Ps
know how to do that. You need to "exercise" the gear in a special way
to allow the grease to work in. The donuts should also be checked.
They are your only suspension. When they wear out you will start
leaking fuel from the tanks pretty quick because it causes the tank to
flex on landing when they are worn out. You also need to have the
preload checked on all the gear. There is a special tool to do that. 1
in 2 A&Ps don't know how to use it (I went to a Mooney maintenance
semenar where several A&Ps who had been working on Mooneys had to be
shown how to use it).

Don't let this run you off. There really aren't many planes out there
as great as a Mooney. I should know, I have one myself.
-Robert