Talk about runway incursions...

So there I am, rolling on 32 (turf), the tail's just come up... when
an Archer blithely rolls right out in front of me on the taxiway for
4. :-|

You can't see much of the taxiway from the departure end of 4 because
of a hangar, and this guy was rolling along pretty good. He was fully
on the runway ahead of me when he saw me, drilled the brakes, and
stopped cold. I put in a pretty interesting swerve (just not enough
room to go over him with the back seat loaded... but I did consider it
for a split second) and managed to roll past with enough clearance not
to terrify me (the swerve had already done that). Thank goodness 32
is wide.

There was nothing I could have done to prevent this. I'd made a
departure radio call, I'd been monitoring the frequency, and I checked
(while taxiing back) to make sure I had the right frequency. This guy
just didn't look or listen.

The wind? About 8-10 knots, 350 or so.

Grass runways are really, truly runways, also. Really.

-Dave Russell
8KCAB

"BTIZ" wrote in message news:mfFZa.9247$2g.5110@fed1read05...

I'm sure if he drilled the brakes on a grass runway and stopped dead in
front of you.. he had to taxi back to change his drawers.. or else he
thought you were in the wrong and not him.

The paved taxiway and runway cross the grass strip, so he was on
pavement. As for who he felt was at fault, even the backseat
passenger noticed the horrible glare we got from him as we turned
around and taxied back past him...

-Dave

Similar situation at Port Clinton this summer where a woods obscure the
intesection of the two runways... I fire up and start to taxi to the
favored runway... As I'm turning on radios and adjusting audio levles I
thought I heard a broken call for the airport so I'm listening closely...
Silence...
I get to the runway, do a run up, etc... Silence...
Call that I'm taking the runway... Silence...
Specifically ask if anyone is using the intersecting runway... Silence...
I do a 360 and finally take the runway when nothing is seen...
Call that I'm rolling for takeoff... Silence...
Break ground and just then a plane comes slowly rolling past the woods on
the other runway into view... Since I have flying speed and I will be two
hundred feet in the air when I make the intersection I change nothing...
He stares at me through his window and as I go past he shakes his fist at
me...
It takes all kinds to make a world... sigh

Denny...
"Dave Russell" wrote in message
om...
So there I am, rolling on 32 (turf), the tail's just come up... when
an Archer blithely rolls right out in front of me on the taxiway for
4. :-|

You can't see much of the taxiway from the departure end of 4 because
of a hangar, and this guy was rolling along pretty good.

"Dave Russell" wrote in message
om...

So there I am, rolling on 32 (turf), the tail's just come up... when
an Archer blithely rolls right out in front of me on the taxiway for
4. :-|

You can't see much of the taxiway from the departure end of 4 because
of a hangar, and this guy was rolling along pretty good. He was fully
on the runway ahead of me when he saw me, drilled the brakes, and
stopped cold. I put in a pretty interesting swerve (just not enough
room to go over him with the back seat loaded... but I did consider it
for a split second) and managed to roll past with enough clearance not
to terrify me (the swerve had already done that). Thank goodness 32
is wide.

There was nothing I could have done to prevent this. I'd made a
departure radio call, I'd been monitoring the frequency, and I checked
(while taxiing back) to make sure I had the right frequency. This guy
just didn't look or listen.


How do you know he didn't look or listen? If you can't see much of the
taxiway from the departure end of 4 because of a hangar, then obviously you
can't see the departure end of runway 4 from much of the taxiway. Just
because you're speaking into the microphone doesn't mean you're
broadcasting.

Obviously the grass runway is not considered a 'true' runway to the pilots
who fly off of the intersecting paved runway.

This is understandable, knowing that humans are humans and operate largely
on preconceived notions ('I've never seen anybody use the grass strip,
therefore it is permanently inactive.' etc)

Maybe there should be an "Airplanes Crossing" sign at the intersection of
the paved taxiway, or maybe you shouldn't use the grass runway at all, since
dumb asses abound in this world and you're bound to be cutoff again some
day.



"Dave Russell" wrote in message
om...
So there I am, rolling on 32 (turf), the tail's just come up... when
an Archer blithely rolls right out in front of me on the taxiway for
4. :-|

You can't see much of the taxiway from the departure end of 4 because
of a hangar, and this guy was rolling along pretty good. He was fully
on the runway ahead of me when he saw me, drilled the brakes, and
stopped cold. I put in a pretty interesting swerve (just not enough
room to go over him with the back seat loaded... but I did consider it
for a split second) and managed to roll past with enough clearance not
to terrify me (the swerve had already done that). Thank goodness 32
is wide.

There was nothing I could have done to prevent this. I'd made a
departure radio call, I'd been monitoring the frequency, and I checked
(while taxiing back) to make sure I had the right frequency. This guy
just didn't look or listen.

The wind? About 8-10 knots, 350 or so.

Grass runways are really, truly runways, also. Really.

-Dave Russell
8KCAB

Given the fact that the DOT feels that the FAA's definition of a
runway incursion mandates an operating air traffic control tower,
perhaps the incident you describe was technically not a runway
incursion:

http://www.oig.dot.gov/show_pdf.php?id=32

FAA defines a runway incursion as “any occurrence at an airport
involving an aircraft, vehicle, person, or object, on the ground,
that creates a collision hazard or results in loss of separation
with an aircraft taking off, intending to take off, landing, or
intending to land.” FAA’s definition applies only to airports with
operating air traffic control towers.
[found at the bottom of page 4]


FAA Office of Runway Safety: http://www.faarsp.org/

--

Irrational beliefs ultimately lead to irrational acts.
-- Larry Dighera,

"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote in message hlink.net...

How do you know he didn't look or listen? If you can't see much of the
taxiway from the departure end of 4 because of a hangar, then obviously you
can't see the departure end of runway 4 from much of the taxiway. Just
because you're speaking into the microphone doesn't mean you're
broadcasting.

My fault... I miskeyed. Let me try again.

I was rolling for takeoff on 32. He was on a perpendicular taxiway
and taxied right out in front of me, headed for 4. If he had looked
before crossing 32, he'd have seen a propellor headed for him at
takeoff power. I'm guessing he didn't look or he would have stopped
short of 32.

The hangars are a bit of a factor in that you can't see the end of 32
(that's the part I mistyped) until you clear them on the taxiway for
4, but there's still plenty of room if you're even romotely awake.

-DJR

Just an ignorant question - how does the fact that the runway was grass
affect this?

I'll agree that the pilot using the taxiway should yield at all crossings -
whether paved or grass. Limited sightline makes it less likely that a pilot
will see the other plane and wonder where it is heading. Markings might help
wake up the inattentive pilot at the crossing.

What if it were two runways that intersect with limited sightline? Since
there is no requirement to use the radios, there does not seem to be a
foolproof way of verifying that the path is clear before two planes meet in
the middle at takeoff speed!

"Dave Russell" wrote in message
om...
So there I am, rolling on 32 (turf), the tail's just come up... when
an Archer blithely rolls right out in front of me on the taxiway for
4. :-|

You can't see much of the taxiway from the departure end of 4 because
of a hangar, and this guy was rolling along pretty good. He was fully
on the runway ahead of me when he saw me, drilled the brakes, and
stopped cold. I put in a pretty interesting swerve (just not enough
room to go over him with the back seat loaded... but I did consider it
for a split second) and managed to roll past with enough clearance not
to terrify me (the swerve had already done that). Thank goodness 32
is wide.

There was nothing I could have done to prevent this. I'd made a
departure radio call, I'd been monitoring the frequency, and I checked
(while taxiing back) to make sure I had the right frequency. This guy
just didn't look or listen.

The wind? About 8-10 knots, 350 or so.

Grass runways are really, truly runways, also. Really.

-Dave Russell
8KCAB