New Bombardier-Rotax engines

Take a look at those 2 new V piston engines :-)

http://www.vaircraftengines.com/en/theConcept.asp

Not bad ! I might call for prices :-)

They won't give them to you.

Mike
MU-2


"rgb" wrote in message
.. .

Take a look at those 2 new V piston engines :-)

http://www.vaircraftengines.com/en/theConcept.asp

Not bad ! I might call for prices :-)

rgb

We've had aluminum auto engines without liners and as I recall they
had a pretty high cylinder failure rate?

If they have solved that problem with their 'electro-deposit' coating.
fine, but I sure wouldn't be the 'first one' to buy.

Think one of the problems is that any coating of the aluminum cylinder
expands at a different rate than the aluminum and this starts the
failure?

Should be some experts on aluminum engines around here on rah that can
give good technical advice about what they are trying to do and
expected results and longevity.

Big John


On Fri, 17 Oct 2003 00:41:42 -0400, rgb wrote:


Take a look at those 2 new V piston engines :-)

http://www.vaircraftengines.com/en/theConcept.asp

Not bad ! I might call for prices :-)

I thought they were also working on a diesel?

--
Montblack

("rgb" wrote)
Take a look at those 2 new V piston engines :-)

http://www.vaircraftengines.com/en/theConcept.asp

Not bad ! I might call for prices :-)

Big,

We've had aluminum auto engines without liners and as I recall they
had a pretty high cylinder failure rate?


Can you explain further? Are the engine blocks aluminum on the
Bombardiers? That's quite common in the auto industry, isn't it? Also,
do you have the feeling anything could be much worse with regard to
premature cylinder problems than current TCM/Lycoming stuff?

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

Montblack,

I thought they were also working on a diesel?


Not them. Thielert and sma are the main diesel contenders right now.

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

"Thomas Borchert" wrote in message
...
Big,

We've had aluminum auto engines without liners and as I recall they
had a pretty high cylinder failure rate?


Can you explain further? Are the engine blocks aluminum on the
Bombardiers? That's quite common in the auto industry, isn't it? Also,
do you have the feeling anything could be much worse with regard to
premature cylinder problems than current TCM/Lycoming stuff?

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)


They appear to be coated aluminum cylinders. The problem that I see is that
the engines run up to 6000 rpm, and are geared 3:1. This makes for a lot of
piston (wear) strokes, and also the added possibility of gearbox problems.
The FADEC engine controls eliminate some control complexity, but more
problems seem folded back in with the liquid cooling.

I don't see a lot of folks standing in line to replace their current engines
until someone *else* runs a few to TBO and publishes cost and performance
analysis.

I think everyone is waiting for a bulletproof JP fueled diesel.

Neither Lycoming or Continental do :-( too bad !

Mike Rapoport wrote:
They won't give them to you.

Mike
MU-2


"rgb" wrote in message
.. .

Take a look at those 2 new V piston engines :-)

http://www.vaircraftengines.com/en/theConcept.asp

Not bad ! I might call for prices :-)

I don't know alot about engines :-/ I'm still a little private pilot who
rent plane ...

Some folks seems to be pretty please with there Rotax 912S so I was
thinking those 2 new engines might give Lycoming and Continental a
little challenge, maybe not ...
For what I can see thoses good old Lycomings are quiet good, but kindof
expensive .

:-)


Big John wrote:

rgb

We've had aluminum auto engines without liners and as I recall they
had a pretty high cylinder failure rate?

If they have solved that problem with their 'electro-deposit' coating.
fine, but I sure wouldn't be the 'first one' to buy.

Think one of the problems is that any coating of the aluminum cylinder
expands at a different rate than the aluminum and this starts the
failure?

Should be some experts on aluminum engines around here on rah that can
give good technical advice about what they are trying to do and
expected results and longevity.

Big John


On Fri, 17 Oct 2003 00:41:42 -0400, rgb wrote:


Take a look at those 2 new V piston engines :-)

http://www.vaircraftengines.com/en/theConcept.asp

Not bad ! I might call for prices :-)

On Fri, 17 Oct 2003 09:49:00 -0500, Big John
wrote:

rgb

We've had aluminum auto engines without liners and as I recall they
had a pretty high cylinder failure rate?

If they have solved that problem with their 'electro-deposit' coating.
fine, but I sure wouldn't be the 'first one' to buy.

Think one of the problems is that any coating of the aluminum cylinder
expands at a different rate than the aluminum and this starts the
failure?

Should be some experts on aluminum engines around here on rah that can
give good technical advice about what they are trying to do and
expected results and longevity.

Big John

Big John, the only all aluminum engine I can recall that was like you
describe was the four cylinder engine in the Cheverolet Vega. That
engine was cast from aluminum that had a high silicon content, and the
cylinder bores were etched such that the aluminum was dissolved away
and the piston rings scraped on a silicon surface. You're right, that
didn't work, or at least didn't work well. Didn't sound real snappy
either, my recollection was that it was a great imitation of someone
going "duuuhhhh". Bombardier isn't using that technology, they are
electro plating the cylinder bores with nickasil. The piston rings
aren't scraping against bare aluminum.

I think I read somewhere that the Bombardier engines have been run for
literally thousands of hours on test stands. So they appear have
already run to TBO and beyond. If they did not run successfully, do
you think they'd be displaying them now?

For those who worry about the numerous piston cycles and how at the
high rpms it would wear excessively, it doesn't happen that way.
Small pistons running at high rpm just do not wear at the same kind of
rate that large pistons whuffing slowly away do, so you can't compare
them directly.

Liquid cooling is a **GOOD THING**, not bad. It means carbon monoxide
free heat for the cabin and no worries about shock cooling. If
automobiles can run their water pumps for 10 years and longer without
failing, I'm guessing Bombardier can do it too.

The higher rpm does a lot of nice things too, for one thing, the
engine will be extremely smooth. In addition, it comes with a real
muffler, and spins the prop slowly. This means you could fly out of
any airport, over the most cantankerous of neighbors and not upset
them.

The V configuration makes for a narrow package, compared to Lycomings.
We've, well I have anyway, been beefing about how old the technology
is of aircraft engines. Here's a truly new design, utilizing many of
the features that should give it a very big step up over the slow
revving Lycomings and Continentals. Think of it as half a baby
Merlin.

Bombardier would not have announced such engines, in my opinion,
without having done enormous amounts of research, both from a
technical and market aspect, and tested them exhaustively.

Bombardier isn't Zoche, after all, they are a for profit company. :-)

Corky Scott