UK2 ER219 Supermarine Spitfire to US Shaibah.jpg

Are you sure that these Spits were for the US Joe?
The insignia looks more like the SAAF star to me.


--
Jeff Cochrane - VK4XA
East Innisfail
QLD, Australia
"Joseph Testagrose" wrote in message
...

On 2013-04-30 19:17:19 -0700, "Jeff - VK4XA"
said:

Are you sure that these Spits were for the US Joe?
The insignia looks more like the SAAF star to me.

That is the USAAF insignia as used on Spitfires. A white star on a blue
circular field.
The same shaped red star without a circular field was the Soviet version

The SAAF did not use a star. Up until 1949 the SAAF used a blue, white
and orange roundel with a gold border. In 1949 they changed to a large
white roundel with a broad blue border with a leaping gold springbok on
the white.



In 1961 they changed again to a graphic silhouette of Cape Town Castle
in blue with a springbok in gold. So it is a castle not a star.


The post apartheid SAAF insignia is a stylized nine point star with an eagle.



--
Regards,

Savageduck

Hello,

Savageduck a écrit dans
news:2013043019554244897-savageduck1@REMOVESPAMmecom :
On 2013-04-30 19:17:19 -0700, "Jeff - VK4XA"
said:

Are you sure that these Spits were for the US Joe?
The insignia looks more like the SAAF star to me.

That is the USAAF insignia as used on Spitfires. A white star on a blue
circular field.
The same shaped red star without a circular field was the Soviet version

The SAAF did not use a star. Up until 1949 the SAAF used a blue, white and
orange roundel with a gold border. In 1949 they changed to a large white
roundel with a broad blue border with a leaping gold springbok on the white.

Well, the SAAF did actually use a five pointed object, which was
definitely not a star but the outline of the castle of Good Hope, in
Cape Town : http://goo.gl/maps/L82aj

For these stars, it looks like a field modification, made in a hurry
"Don't shoot at me, I'm on your side" ?

--
D520
Delta Reflex : http://bdd.deltareflex.com
Light aviation : http://tagazous.free.fr
Roundels of the World :
http://cocardes.monde.online.fr/v2html/en/accueil.html

On 2013-04-30 23:09:23 -0700, D. St-Sanvain
said:



Hello,

Savageduck a écrit dans
news:2013043019554244897-savageduck1@REMOVESPAMmecom :
On 2013-04-30 19:17:19 -0700, "Jeff - VK4XA"
said:

Are you sure that these Spits were for the US Joe?
The insignia looks more like the SAAF star to me.

That is the USAAF insignia as used on Spitfires. A white star on a blue
circular field.
The same shaped red star without a circular field was the Soviet version

The SAAF did not use a star. Up until 1949 the SAAF used a blue, white and
orange roundel with a gold border. In 1949 they changed to a large white
roundel with a broad blue border with a leaping gold springbok on the white.

Well, the SAAF did actually use a five pointed object, which was
definitely not a star but the outline of the castle of Good Hope, in
Cape Town : http://goo.gl/maps/L82aj

For these stars, it looks like a field modification, made in a hurry
"Don't shoot at me, I'm on your side" ?

If you had scrolled down to see and read all of my post you would have
seen each of the examples of SAAF insignia I posted including the
following:
"In 1961 they changed again to a graphic silhouette of Cape Town Castle
in blue with a springbok in gold. So it is a castle not a star."

So this was not the WWII era SAAF insignia.
....and just incase you didn't see any of the images I included in that
post, below you will find the URL and the repost of the one discussed
above.
http://www.groundshout.co.za/misc/mirage_iii/Castle.png


--
Regards,

Savageduck

On Wed, 1 May 2013 07:09:23 +0100, D. St-Sanvain wrote
(in article ):

For these stars, it looks like a field modification, made in a hurry
"Don't shoot at me, I'm on your side" ?

Stars were used on British aircraft during Operation Torch, not just to
minimise friendly fire but also as a 'false flag' - following Mers el Kebir
the UK had reason to believe they would not be particularly popular with the
French in North Africa.

However, the location of ER219 is given as Shaibah - presumably RAF Shaibah
in Iraq. If correct, this line-up of aircraft is odd.

Savageduck a écrit dans
news:2013050100481683871-savageduck1@REMOVESPAMmecom :
On 2013-04-30 23:09:23 -0700, D. St-Sanvain
said:



Hello,

Savageduck a écrit dans
news:2013043019554244897-savageduck1@REMOVESPAMmecom :
On 2013-04-30 19:17:19 -0700, "Jeff - VK4XA"
said:

Are you sure that these Spits were for the US Joe?
The insignia looks more like the SAAF star to me.

That is the USAAF insignia as used on Spitfires. A white star on a blue
circular field.
The same shaped red star without a circular field was the Soviet version

The SAAF did not use a star. Up until 1949 the SAAF used a blue, white and
orange roundel with a gold border. In 1949 they changed to a large white
roundel with a broad blue border with a leaping gold springbok on the
white.

Well, the SAAF did actually use a five pointed object, which was
definitely not a star but the outline of the castle of Good Hope, in
Cape Town : http://goo.gl/maps/L82aj

For these stars, it looks like a field modification, made in a hurry
"Don't shoot at me, I'm on your side" ?

If you had scrolled down to see and read all of my post you would have seen
each of the examples of SAAF insignia I posted including the following:
"In 1961 they changed again to a graphic silhouette of Cape Town Castle
in blue with a springbok in gold. So it is a castle not a star."

So this was not the WWII era SAAF insignia.
...and just incase you didn't see any of the images I included in that post,
below you will find the URL and the repost of the one discussed above.
http://www.groundshout.co.za/misc/mirage_iii/Castle.png

I have the pictures, not the whole text

--
D520
Delta Reflex : http://bdd.deltareflex.com
Light aviation : http://tagazous.free.fr
Roundels of the World :
http://cocardes.monde.online.fr/v2html/en/accueil.html

On Wed, 1 May 2013 09:28:45 +0100, Netko
wrote:


However, the location of ER219 is given as Shaibah - presumably RAF Shaibah
in Iraq. If correct, this line-up of aircraft is odd.

2 possibilities:
-post war storage?
-Spits previously used by US, about to be sent to the USSR?

On Wed, 1 May 2013 12:46:47 +0100, JR wrote
(in article ):


However, the location of ER219 is given as Shaibah - presumably RAF Shaibah
in Iraq. If correct, this line-up of aircraft is odd.

2 possibilities:
-post war storage?
-Spits previously used by US, about to be sent to the USSR?

Ah, being sent to the USSR - that hadn't occurred to me and it's probably the
answer. Thank you.

RAF Spitfires were shipped to Iraq from North Africa and at least some were
re-assembled at Shaibah before being ferried to Abadan for collection by
Soviet pilots. It's plausible to assume that these deliveries included
Spitfires still wearing Torch stars.

A couple of on-line references of relevance:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/ww2peop...a4142594.shtml

http://lend-lease.airforce.ru/english/articles/spit/

On 01/05/2013 13:55, Netko wrote:
On Wed, 1 May 2013 12:46:47 +0100, JR wrote
(in article ):


However, the location of ER219 is given as Shaibah - presumably RAF Shaibah
in Iraq. If correct, this line-up of aircraft is odd.

2 possibilities:
-post war storage?
-Spits previously used by US, about to be sent to the USSR?

Ah, being sent to the USSR - that hadn't occurred to me and it's probably the
answer. Thank you.

RAF Spitfires were shipped to Iraq from North Africa and at least some were
re-assembled at Shaibah before being ferried to Abadan for collection by
Soviet pilots. It's plausible to assume that these deliveries included
Spitfires still wearing Torch stars.

A couple of on-line references of relevance:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/ww2peop...a4142594.shtml

http://lend-lease.airforce.ru/english/articles/spit/



The stars look very crude, including on the wing of ER219. Note that the
aircraft in the foreground has a star on the fuselage but an RAF Type B
on the wing.

Morgan & Shacklady's Spitfire The History gives basic details of every
aircraft. ER219 is not shown as going to the USAAF, but was struck off
charge on 30-4-43. I think it's probable that these stars are Operation
Torch markings, although that was from 8-11-42. But why Shaibah in that
case, unless that's where aircraft were scrapped?

--
Peter