Caproni A-21SJ

On Friday, February 10, 1995 2:11:37 PM UTC-5, Nick Leonard wrote:
Raphael: I'm posting this to the net for their amusement, too!
1. Yes, the pre-production A-21 SJ was flown all'round Europe and England
back in the early eighties. This was to drum up some biz. That bird has a
100 KG thrust TRS-18 engine whose climbout is a real yawn ( I have this
bird with me now) BUT this doesn't detract from the raw pleasure of making
such expensive noise :-)
2. Inflight startup question: Yes, you can certainly restart in-flight.
/ Master:ON, Gen:ON, Vent/Norm: Norm, Start button depress for approx
10 sec ( at +3 you hear the ign plugs popping, +6 the engine spoolup
rate increases and the DB count in the cockpit goes from 60(??) to a
deafening something-or-other. I use earplugs under headphones. ANR will
be this summer's key! ) Try to wait about a minute at about 90% to let the
EGT stabilize a bit then firewall it. On a microturbo you either go flat
out or idle (the odd approach;usually you behave as a proper sailplane should)
-the fuel consumption is awful. Example: a touch and go and pattern circuit
will consume about $8.00 in fuel. That's full burn 'till halfway thru down-
wind leg then idle.
3. I have gone through two other A-21SJs...complete refurbs and some mods
to reduce friction and subsequent stiffness in both pitch and roll modes..
One of these (currently back in Australia) has now truly sweet control
feeling. It's a big, heavy bird so one cannot expect a four-aileron Pitts
kind of roll rate (! can you imagine!!) but I'd wildly guess 45 to 45 @
60 kts to be about 4 sec or possibly a bit faster.
Once the pitch friction problem was worked out, the control is smooth
and "linear". No surprises in pitch.
One rather odd flight characteristic of the bird is the ability of the
pilot to "turbulate" in circling flight the outboard (trapezoidal section)
wing panels through rough pitch inputs OR rough little thermals. Typically,
one is at max gross which makes the problem occur at lower accelleration
rates. What happens is that too much positive G input oilcans the Trapezoi-
dal section and thus causes turbulation. You can FEEL the loss in perfor-
mance. But, after one has flown the creature for a while, you can "sidle
up " to the grey area and live there as you climb.
It climbs well, though needing bigger thermals than the local K-8!!
We have the vario audio + threshold set at about 3 kts. Anything less
is ignored.
L/D on "my" aircraft are 43:1 + That is...so far as I can measure without
a truly precise "Johnson Grade" type of testing. We've done 50 mile final
glides and the numbers just kept working out as predicted.
I hope I've answered your questions, Raphael. The Caproni A-21s sure aren't
everyone's cup of tea; but they have a .....panache.....lacking in other,
somewhat higher performance 2 place motorgliders. Perhaps becaus the air-
plane is the result of an artist like Ferrarin ( the designer);perhaps bec-
ause each machine is hand built by craftsmen of the old school (look and
you will see the odd file mark and pencilled notations and signatures)
rather than the somewhat sterile molded perfection of the German Super-Ships.
I-Jett, for example, has glove leather upholstry. When you get into the
bird you smell a little Jet-A, a little lubricating oil, a little plastic;
but what you mostly smell is the lovely leather....
-Like getting into a Ferrari. Same thing. Sigh!
Cheers,
--
Nick Leonard

Dick Reiser (late of New Mexico?) owned one which he sent to Chile for he and I to fly in a state-sponsored soaring exploration of the Andes (west side) in 1984. During one of the practice sessions in Santiago, Bernald Smith and I powered all the way over Mt Anconcaqua,14,494', at which point it was out of fuel. On the glide back to the airport we flew with some Andean condors.

One quirk I had to adjust to was the perception of what straight ahead was in this ship. Since it was side by side seating the nose taper pointed your legs off center and I invariably landed with a little crab.

Ed Byars was on that expedition and flew the Caproni a couple legs while I was down with Montezuma's revenge.

Karl Striedieck

On Friday, December 6, 2013 10:40:22 AM UTC-5, wrote:
Dick Reiser (late of New Mexico?) owned one which he sent to Chile
for he and I to fly in a state-sponsored soaring exploration of the
Andes (west side) in 1984. During one of the practice sessions in
Santiago, Bernald Smith and I powered all the way over Mt Anconcaqua,
14,494', at which point it was out of fuel. On the glide back to
the airport we flew with some Andean condors.

IIRC Dick Reiser had two of these babies, one down in Oz.
That was some years back though.
Neighbors used to complain a lot when he fired up !

I only flew one once (unpowered version) some decades back...

See ya, Dave "YO electric"

PS: JS, you know if that one is still in Oz ?

What a crazy thread resurrection!
Sorry Dave, haven't actually seen a Caproni in Australia.
Calif A-21 is a handful to fly. The ASH25 (of similar vintage considering the thread is now 18 years old) is easier to rig and fly, and can also be converted to jet.
[photo link below] is an ASH25E converted to jet, and which YO has flown.
But if you're going to do a new conversion talk to Bob Carlton about the TJ100.
Jim

http://www.keepitsoaring.com/LKSC/in...ery#1-LSKCG156

On Friday, December 6, 2013 11:46:03 AM UTC-8, Dave Nadler wrote:
PS: JS, you know if that one is still in Oz ?

On Friday, December 6, 2013 5:40:35 PM UTC-5, JS wrote:
The ASH25 (of similar vintage considering the thread is now 18
years old) is easier to rig and fly, and can also be converted to jet.
[photo link below] is an ASH25E converted to jet, and which YO has flown.
http://www.keepitsoaring.com/LKSC/in...ery#1-LSKCG156

Yes, Paul was kind enough to lend me his ASH for FLARM flight-testing
a couple years ago (PowerFLARM development). Fun toy !