Ballistic Recovery System

The Genesis-2 was designed to incorporate a Ballistic Recovery System. My ship and at least one other US Genesis-2 is flying with a BRS installed. I regularly monitor the NTSB accident reports for glider accidents and this month I see 3 Cirrus Design Group accidents. The Cirrus is a power aircraft, but is of interest to me because they come from the factory with a BRS installed. Well, January has seen 3 successful deployments of Cirrus ballistic recovery systems. Two at high altitude and one on final at 400 feet! All from loss of engine power. One deployment occurred in 30 knot ground wind and pilot and passenger had to make a quick exit of the ship because it was being drug across the ground by its fully inflated chute. There is no way to jettison the chute.
JJ

JJ

They couldn't make the runway from 400ft on final??? Could you post a link to the reports?

Boggs

On Wednesday, January 29, 2014 6:53:15 AM UTC-8, JJ Sinclair wrote:
The Genesis-2 was designed to incorporate a Ballistic Recovery System. My ship and at least one other US Genesis-2 is flying with a BRS installed. I regularly monitor the NTSB accident reports for glider accidents and this month I see 3 Cirrus Design Group accidents. The Cirrus is a power aircraft, but is of interest to me because they come from the factory with a BRS installed. Well, January has seen 3 successful deployments of Cirrus ballistic recovery systems. Two at high altitude and one on final at 400 feet! All from loss of engine power. One deployment occurred in 30 knot ground wind and pilot and passenger had to make a quick exit of the ship because it was being drug across the ground by its fully inflated chute. There is no way to jettison the chute.

JJ

400' and the first reaction of the pilot is to "pop the chute"? What kind of training do these Cirrus Pilots get on the BRS? How 'bout "lower the nose, watch your airspeed and take what you got" and land in the golf course (they surround most general aviation airports.

On Wednesday, January 29, 2014 9:27:36 AM UTC-6, Waveguru wrote:
JJ They couldn't make the runway from 400ft on final??? Could you post a link to the reports? Boggs

http://www.ntsb.gov/aviationquery/br...05X43412&key=1

http://www.ntsb.gov/aviationquery/br...07X12103&key=1

http://www.ntsb.gov/aviationquery/br...09X92051&key=1

400 feet three miles out. Engine not responding to throttle, and not making power. Think you could make it in a Cirrus that was not made by Schempp-Hirth? Sounds to me like he had troubles and didn't properly adjust a long ways back. And, take a look at that airport on a three mile final to runway 29.

Not going to defend or criticise his final action. Just seems like so many power pilots count on the engine running to get them to the destination once on final. And when it doesn't keep running, well, it is not good for anyone.

On Wednesday, January 29, 2014 8:44:59 AM UTC-8, Steve Leonard wrote:
On Wednesday, January 29, 2014 9:27:36 AM UTC-6, Waveguru wrote:

JJ They couldn't make the runway from 400ft on final??? Could you post a link to the reports? Boggs



http://www.ntsb.gov/aviationquery/br...05X43412&key=1



http://www.ntsb.gov/aviationquery/br...07X12103&key=1



http://www.ntsb.gov/aviationquery/br...09X92051&key=1



400 feet three miles out. Engine not responding to throttle, and not making power. Think you could make it in a Cirrus that was not made by Schempp-Hirth? Sounds to me like he had troubles and didn't properly adjust a long ways back. And, take a look at that airport on a three mile final to runway 29.



Not going to defend or criticise his final action. Just seems like so many power pilots count on the engine running to get them to the destination once on final. And when it doesn't keep running, well, it is not good for anyone.

400 feet three miles out. On a 3 degree glidslope? I doubt it. 400' is more like a 1/4mile final.

I agree. I looked at all 3 reports; one sounds like a real engine failure
(severe vibrations) in IMC. They gave it a valid try -- flew an ILS approach --
and gave up at 1000' AGL when they couldn't maintain the glideslope. The others,
what were they thinking? The one guy was trying a straight-in approach from
5 miles out. We really hated those types when we flew off a paved runway.
The third was at 9000 feet! The glide range had to be something approaching
20 miles from up there! I can't believe there wasn't a runway around somewhere!

Matt

On Wednesday, January 29, 2014 3:12:34 PM UTC-6, wrote:
400 feet three miles out. On a 3 degree glidslope? I doubt it. 400' is more like a 1/4mile final.

400 feet altitude, 3 degree glide slope is 1.44 miles out. But, why would you set half flap when still 5 miles out? Don't have any Cirrus time, so I don't know what they teach you for that plane. But, at 100 knots, and 5 miles, you have got time to do several things. Not really in danger of overflying the airport unless really high. And since he was well below glideslope at 3 miles, well, he wasn't any too high on his approach...

The one in France, I assume he flew through the valley and not over the mountains. So, he should have had good altitude and time to think. Unclear as to altitude of pulling the chute.

Steve

If you have the Google Earth plugin (or want to install it) you can see the approach to Runway 29 he

http://www.aircraft.io/airport/W22/

(Click on Advanced Settings to configure 3 miles out with a 1.5 degree slope).

The airport is up on a mesa, so if the pilot was 400 ft AGL 3 miles out, that may have been even lower relative to the runway.

AM

On Wednesday, January 29, 2014 4:05:46 PM UTC-6, Steve Leonard wrote:
On Wednesday, January 29, 2014 3:12:34 PM UTC-6, wrote:

400 feet three miles out. On a 3 degree glidslope? I doubt it. 400' is more like a 1/4mile final.



400 feet altitude, 3 degree glide slope is 1.44 miles out. But, why would you set half flap when still 5 miles out? Don't have any Cirrus time, so I don't know what they teach you for that plane. But, at 100 knots, and 5 miles, you have got time to do several things. Not really in danger of overflying the airport unless really high. And since he was well below glideslope at 3 miles, well, he wasn't any too high on his approach...



The one in France, I assume he flew through the valley and not over the mountains. So, he should have had good altitude and time to think. Unclear as to altitude of pulling the chute.



Steve

At Moriarty, NM, we always see power pilots flying what we charitably call
"bomber patterns" (circuits for you Limeys). When I fly the tow plane, I'm
always within gliding distance of the runway - there's just no reason to be
that far away unless you're trying to build flight time. Plus, those big
patterns really disrupt glider flying.

I think the BRS system is a great invention but it does need some thought in
its use. We're considering a Pipistrel Sinus (used) which had a BRS system
installed. I think it's great, though I was somewhat taken aback by the
repack cost. But, since it's over a much longer period than a personal
chute, the cost is about the same as all the six-month repacks.

And finally, did you all see the video of the Cirrus (I think it was), that
collided with the tow line at Boulder, CO several years back? He deployed
his BRS system and then burned to death as the flaming plane settled slowly
to the ground. Not pretty.


wrote in message
...
On Wednesday, January 29, 2014 6:53:15 AM UTC-8, JJ Sinclair wrote:
The Genesis-2 was designed to incorporate a Ballistic Recovery System. My
ship and at least one other US Genesis-2 is flying with a BRS installed. I
regularly monitor the NTSB accident reports for glider accidents and this
month I see 3 Cirrus Design Group accidents. The Cirrus is a power
aircraft, but is of interest to me because they come from the factory with
a BRS installed. Well, January has seen 3 successful deployments of Cirrus
ballistic recovery systems. Two at high altitude and one on final at 400
feet! All from loss of engine power. One deployment occurred in 30 knot
ground wind and pilot and passenger had to make a quick exit of the ship
because it was being drug across the ground by its fully inflated chute.
There is no way to jettison the chute.

JJ

400' and the first reaction of the pilot is to "pop the chute"? What kind
of training do these Cirrus Pilots get on the BRS? How 'bout "lower the
nose, watch your airspeed and take what you got" and land in the golf course
(they surround most general aviation airports.

I regularly give demo rides in a Pipistrel Sinus to power pilots.
I always shut the engine off and feather the prop. Generally they freak out.. They have never a real engine out glide let alone a full landing. The body motions when in the landing pattern are fun to watch. However after landing and turning off the runway they love it, can't believe you can do that without a motor running.

Talking with the average power pilot and sooner or later you will hear something like this "if the engine quits you are dead" With that mind set it is no wonder there are so many ugly crashes in power planes.

Do your power pilot friends a favor, take them of a glider ride, in calm conditions, let them fly the glider, even fly the pattern and maybe land it. One day that experience just might save them.

Robert Mudd