NYC Help?

Two things(Three actually):

In July, I will be making a cross country trip to New York City to visit a
life-long friend. At one point, I would like fly along to Hudson River path
to see the Statue of Liberty. I was wondering if that path is open to VFR?
New policy? Do I have to inform anyone in advance? Any suggestion?

I would need a tie down for a couple days near NYC. My friend lives in
Manhattan. Which airport do you recommend(non-controlled airport preferred)?
Cost?

Any suggestion for this trip? Gear? I will be flying either Cessna 150 or a
Warrior. I haven't decide yet. By the way, I will be flying to NYC from
Pittsburgh.

Toks Desalu
PP-ASEL
Dyin' to Soar

"Toks Desalu" wrote in message
news:GIzsc.112001$iF6.10265817@attbi_s02...
Two things(Three actually):

In July, I will be making a cross country trip to New York City to visit a
life-long friend. At one point, I would like fly along to Hudson River
path
to see the Statue of Liberty. I was wondering if that path is open to VFR?
New policy? Do I have to inform anyone in advance? Any suggestion?

I would need a tie down for a couple days near NYC. My friend lives in
Manhattan. Which airport do you recommend(non-controlled airport
preferred)?
Cost?

Any suggestion for this trip? Gear? I will be flying either Cessna 150 or
a
Warrior. I haven't decide yet. By the way, I will be flying to NYC from
Pittsburgh.

Toks Desalu
PP-ASEL
Dyin' to Soar



First thing, get yourself the NYC terminal area chart. Study it well, and
don't even think about entering NYC airspace without it. On the back of the
TAC are the procedures for flying the Hudson, I've done it a few times
myself, and it's really spectacular. There is a self-announce procedure for
VFR ops, and most pilots request some kind of flight following during the
ride as well, just to be on the safe side. The NYC controllers are highly
professional and usually extremely accomodating of VFR pilots, so unless it
is an extraordinarially busy day, they'll help you out. 140 kts is the max
speed within the Hudson corridor, and you need to keep all your lights on at
all times. There is also a permanant TFR in the direct vicinity of the
Statue of Liberty. And before you even attempt such a flight, make sure that
the President isn't in town, or there isn't any heightened security in the
city; city-wide TFRs pop up all the time. Best advice is to get a good
briefing, study the procedure on the chart, have your radios preprogrammed
with the frequencies (there'll be a few of them) and keep your eyes open.
Even on a slow day, the NYC airspace is more crowded than anywhere else on
earth.

As for which airport to tie-down at, there is only one uncontrolled field in
the the vast NYC class B (Linden, NJ-- LDJ). So unless you don't mind a
2+hour commute into Manhattan from your tie-down, you're going to have to
land at a controlled field (at least Class D). Teterboro is the closest GA
airport to Manhattan (like 20 minutes), but it has a tricky arrival
procedure (especially if you were hoping for an uncontrolled field), so it
may not be your first choice. The other two closest GA fields are
Westchester (HPN) which is about 40 minutes out of Manhattan, and Republic
(FRG) about an hour out. I fly out of Republic (I also live in Manhattan).

Any way you slice it, you are going to have to do a good amount of talking
to controllers; there's just no way around it.

Cost-wise...well...it's New York. Here's an easy formula: Take whatever
you'd normally spend on anything and triple it (at least), and then you have
the New York price. This goes for everything, not just aviation.

Toks Desalu wrote:

I would need a tie down for a couple days near NYC. My friend lives in
Manhattan. Which airport do you recommend(non-controlled airport preferred)?
Cost?

Republic Airport at Farmingdale (KFRG) is nice -- I was there a bit over a
week ago. The airport is controlled, but it's mixed-use with a lot of VFR
traffic and a fairly laid-back tower. Tied-down for my Warrior at the Long
Island Jet Center was USD 10/night, with the first night free after I filled
up (gas was quite expensive). The airport is a five-minute drive from the
Long Island Railroad station. There's a train into Manhattan's Penn Station
(about a 10 minute walk south of Times Square) at least every hour during
the day, and it's inexpensive. On the other hand, Republic is on the wrong
side of NYC for you, so it probably doesn't make sense unless you fly across
to Albany and then south from there.

I've also flown into Caldwell, NJ (KCDW), which has a tower and mostly
small-airplane traffic. The airport was friendly enough, but it was a major
pain in the behind getting into Manhattan from the airport, and even worse
getting back late at night. I don't remember the tie-down cost, but you can
check it on airnav.com. Caldwell is a fair bit closer to you, so it might
be your best bet, but sort out ground transportation first. A taxi or car
and driver into Manhattan can easily take 90 minutes (at least that was my
experience) and cost over USD 70.00, so find out about trains and busses or
see if your friend will drive out and pick you up.

Next time, if I'm in a hurry I might try Teterboro on the Jersey side. From
what I've heard, it's a cheap cab ride from Manhattan out to Teterboro, but
a ridiculously expensive ride from Teterboro into Manhattan. If you don't
like controlled airports, though, I doubt you'd like Teterboro much, since
it's very busy -- it's also more expensive to tie down.

You might have a long flight home in a Cessna 150 -- a 30 kt headwind would
have the cars passing you below. Unless you want to take your time and
enjoy the scenery for quite a few hours, you might want to consider renting
the Warrior instead.


All the best, and have fun,


David

Thomas J. Paladino Jr. wrote:

Cost-wise...well...it's New York. Here's an easy formula: Take whatever
you'd normally spend on anything and triple it (at least), and then you have
the New York price. This goes for everything, not just aviation.

Not quite everything -- it certainly goes for hotels, but NY taxis are cheap
for getting around Manhattan, the subway and busses are easy and
inexpensive, and there are lots of good, low-price restaurants and delis if
you don't mind exploring a bit away from the tacky tourist parts of the
city. You can pay a lot for clothes on 5th Avenue or for CDs at HMV on
Times Square, but if you don't mind poking around more interesting, less
glitzy neighbourhoods, you'll find all kinds of great deals, as in any big city.

At Republic, gas was mind-numbingly expensive (over USD 4/hour, if I recall
correctly) but tie-down and landing fees were quite cheap compared to many
airports elsewhere in North America.


All the best,


David

Toks Desalu asks;

... I was wondering if that path is open to VFR?
New policy? Do I have to inform anyone in advance? Any suggestion?

You've gotten response on this - I'd add only one thing, which is that
if the Yankees are playing a baseball game, the TFR over Yankee stadium
extends over the Hudson - be sure to check if it's in effect before
taking the tour.

I would need a tie down for a couple days near NYC. My friend lives in
Manhattan. Which airport do you recommend(non-controlled airport
preferred)?
Cost?

Teterboro's OK - just contact them far enough out to get a squawk code
and the frequencies, and there are busses into the city from there.
It's controlled and has a $15 landing fee, along with whatever tiedown
fee the FBO you choose will hit you with.

Caldwell (CDW) is another controlled field further west, just off of
Route 80. Tiedown at Caldwell Air Services there is $8/night (I leave my
COZY there when I visit my parents in NJ). There's no direct service
into the city, but you can take a cab (or walk) to the nearby mall and
take a bus from their into the city.

North of CDW is Lincoln Park, which is a nice little uncontrolled field,
but I have no clue how to get to NYC from there.

--
Marc J. Zeitlin
http://marc.zeitlin.home.comcast.net/
http://www.cozybuilders.org/
Copyright (c) 2004

Toks Desalu wrote:

In July, I will be making a cross country trip to New York City to visit a
life-long friend. At one point, I would like fly along to Hudson River path
to see the Statue of Liberty. I was wondering if that path is open to VFR?

The VFR corridor is open. You do need to check for TFRs. The main "gotchas" are when
the prez comes to town and when the Yankees play a home game. Dunno what will happen
when the Republican national convention is held, or when it will be held, but that'll
probably cause some trouble too.

George Patterson
I childproofed my house, but they *still* get in.

"Thomas J. Paladino Jr." wrote:

There is also a permanant TFR in the direct vicinity of the
Statue of Liberty.

I believe that's been gone for quite some time now. There are no flight restrictions
listed for New York that I can find.

George Patterson
I childproofed my house, but they *still* get in.

The TFR around Yankee Stadium is 3 miles and 3000 feet. I asked for flight
following & clearance into Class B down the Hudson at 3500 last week; the
controllers were very accomodating (it was Saturday afternoon and not very
busy). It was pretty cool to see big jets 500 feet above & below me.
(American 458, traffic is a Skyhawk, 12 o'clock, 2 miles, 3500 ft--report
traffic in sight!) The view is not as good from 3500 as 1000, but it was
great fun anyway.

Thomas J. Paladino Jr. wrote:

There is a self-announce procedure
for VFR ops, and most pilots request some kind of flight following during
the ride as well, just to be on the safe side.

These - self announce vs. flight following - are mutually exclusive (at
least at the same time). You'd self announce in the "vfr corridor" (called
by the controllers an "exclusion zone"). Fly actually in the class B, and
you can get FF.

I've done both. In fact, I did both once on a single trip: I picked up FF
starting with Teterboro tower, was handed off to LGA and stayed with them.
I went down the Hudson to somewhere around central part, turned left to
overfly the park, and then went down to the Battery. I turned back up, and
headed back up the Hudson.

Then I dropped a few hundred feet and did the Hudson part again w/o FF.

That's a significant difference: you cannot overfly Manhatten itself w/o a
clearance. At least when I did it, it was no big deal and LGA was very
accomodating. In fact, she even told me she was working nobody else at the
time (my own controller!).

There is also a permanant TFR in the direct
vicinity of the Statue of Liberty.

Long gone.

And before you even attempt such a
flight, make sure that the President isn't in town, or there isn't any
heightened security in the city; city-wide TFRs pop up all the time.

Good advice, but don't let it scare you. These are actually pretty rare
(although with the Republican convention coming, we can expect some
turmoil). There's currently a small TFR nearby for an airshow over Jones
beach.

As for which airport to tie-down at, there is only one uncontrolled field
in the the vast NYC class B (Linden, NJ-- LDJ). So unless you don't mind a
2+hour commute into Manhattan from your tie-down, you're going to have to
land at a controlled field (at least Class D).

Or use Linden. My club has a couple of aircraft there. While I've only
used it a few times, the experience has always been pleasant. Just have a
*lot* of patience if the wind requires a departure on 9 and you're
departing IFR.

One concern with Linden: it is not manned 24x7. Contact the FBO for more
information.

Teterboro is the closest GA
airport to Manhattan (like 20 minutes), but it has a tricky arrival
procedure (especially if you were hoping for an uncontrolled field), so it
may not be your first choice.

I believe that Linden is a short cab ride from a quick rail trip into the
city. This gets you into Midtown. I suspect that this is more convenient
for Midtown (and Downtown) than Teterboro.

Caldwell is a poor choice given ground transport unless you arrange
something ahead of time. But you can do so. They've even rental cars on
the field (last time I checked) at Mac Dac (one of the FBOs there).

You can get to Teterboro, Caldwell, or Linden w/o speaking to TRACON. But
that involves (in my opinion) extra work for a visitor. If you can get
advisories en route, and then handed off to New York, it'll make life a
little easier for you.

VFR services, though, are not always available (I listened to a TRACON
controller quickly change from light to heavy load this morning, and she -
correctly - started brushing off the VFRs). So have a backup plan Just In
Case.

- Andrew

"Joe Johnson" wrote in message
m...
It was pretty cool to see big jets 500 feet above & below me.
(American 458, traffic is a Skyhawk, 12 o'clock, 2 miles, 3500 ft--report
traffic in sight!)

Hm, is 500' enough separation for wake turbulence? The airliner was
presumably flying well below cruise speed.

--Gary