Bush Sr's Gulfstream crash...

So far, nobody has made mention of this incident in the newsgroups I
frequent so thought I would give it mention. I'm sure its gotten
national coverage. At approx 6:23 AM CST a Gulstream 1159a (formerly a
G3 I think) impacted the ground about 6-7 miles SW of Hobby airport as
it was on approach for runway 4. Conditions throughout the area were IFR
to low IFR with ground fog and ceilings that ranged in the 2-400 ft
range (as estimated by me.. I havent queried the official sources..)
local media reported Hobby as 1/8th of a mile vis.

The aircraft's debis path according to the media was south to north, and
began where the aircraft's wing struck a tall highway lighting pole (the
250-300 ft "area lighting" variety), shearing off the wing, resulting in
a fireball, and the destruction of the aircraft in a cow pasture
alongside the highway (The Sam Houston Tollway/Beltway 8). This was
about 2 miles from where my building partner in the Velocity lives, and
had I been going to a particular hospital to work, I would have likely
been an eyewitness (thats about the time I pass through that area).
Build partner's fiancee reported the whole area reeked of jet fuel.

The aircraft was enroute from Dallas Love to Hobby to pick up Former
Prez Bush for an international trip that he subsequently cancelled. 3
confirmed fatals, presumed to be PIC, SIC and flight attendant on the
Fractional Jet owned by an Oklahoma based company.

When all this was unfolding on the news, one of the doc's at work who
keeps a C-414 at Hobby went and got his plates, and for the charts, it
states that if they were on the path (which they werent quite on, based
on my knowledge of the lay of the land).. the FAF would be approx 1500
ft MSL and the next furthest out fix at 8.x miles would have been 1800
miles. They didnt report any trouble, and in fact just "dropped off the
air" according to media reports. I will not try and speculate, but I
must say it's frustrating that a professional crew, in a professionally
maintained plane in an area with saturated radar coverage practically to
the ground, on an IFR flight plan, presumably on a coupled approach or
intercept (ok.. I dont know that.. im guessing), presumably with GPWS
(dont the big bizjets have to have em or where they exempt?) managed to
pull off CFIT in a coastal plain (no mountains)..

At least they didnt take out anyone on the ground... the media down here
was already having a field day about those "small planes like gulfstreams"

some info sources at
www.chron.com
www.abc13.com
www.click2houston.com

Dave

So far, nobody has made mention of this incident in the newsgroups I
frequent so thought I would give it mention.

This crash was discussed fairly extensively in another thread here on
rec.piloting.

Are you using Google to check the groups? I use it at work, and they seem
to be days -- not just hours -- behind nowadays.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
news:ZsGod.140632$R05.49914@attbi_s53...
So far, nobody has made mention of this incident in the newsgroups I
frequent so thought I would give it mention.

This crash was discussed fairly extensively in another thread here on
rec.piloting.

Really? It only happened yesterday and it barely made a blip in the national
news.

This crash was discussed fairly extensively in another thread here on
rec.piloting.

Really? It only happened yesterday and it barely made a blip in the
national
news.

Well, shoot -- my bad.

Upon reflection, it was discussed in another on-line group that I frequent
("Cherokee Chat" -- the Cherokee Pilots Association's group) -- not this
one.

Gotta keep my groups straight!
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

On Tue, 23 Nov 2004 14:04:36 GMT, "Jay Honeck"
wrote:

This crash was discussed fairly extensively in another thread here on
rec.piloting.

Really? It only happened yesterday and it barely made a blip in the
national
news.

Well, shoot -- my bad.

Upon reflection, it was discussed in another on-line group that I frequent
("Cherokee Chat" -- the Cherokee Pilots Association's group) -- not this
one.

Gotta keep my groups straight!


Anybody got a link, or brief description? Who was on board where it
happened, etc...

TIA.
z

zatatime wrote:



Anybody got a link, or brief description? Who was on board where it
happened, etc...

TIA.
z

Just the crew.. 2 pilots and I am presuming a cabin attendant/flight
attendant provided by the fractional operator. As of yesterday the names
werent released.

Todays local plane story:
http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory...olitan/2914895

Yesterday's plane story:
http://abclocal.go.com/ktrk/news/112...lanecrash.html

As for Jay...
I was unaware of the existence of rec.piloting.. My aviation newsgroups
are all rec.aviation.*** . I don't use google, I use netscape and access
the news servers directly.

Dave

On Tue, 23 Nov 2004 20:14:17 GMT, Dave S
wrote:

Todays local plane story:
http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory...olitan/2914895

Yesterday's plane story:
http://abclocal.go.com/ktrk/news/112...lanecrash.html


Thanks.
z

The latest news report says the controller warned them two minutes
prior to impact that they were at only 400 feet, but they didn't
respond. I wonder if their altimeter was not set to the correct
barometric pressure.

Something about this crash sounds fishy. I am sure these were really good
pilots. How do you make a mistake like this especialy when the tower tells
you youre to low, and then you never reply back.

aluckyguess

Let me talk about IFR approaches from experience.

1. If the ILS needles were centered, I doubt if the pilots would take
advice from ground.. This could lead to a long discussion between ILS
and GCA and which is the best.

2. Both pilots had 20,000 hours of flying time (not newbe's).

3. Was reported that ILS was checked and was working ok???

4. If on an ILS, then altimeter setting would not be of prime
importance. You ride the beam down until you see the R/W (or minimum
altitude and go around) and land. The beam (needles) is/are the
governing factor on az and el. ILS is sited to have a touch down point
of say 2000 down R/W. Forget the exact figures.

5. In my review of facts released to date I would look hard at the ILS
system(s) in the bird. Or a second possibility, pilots saw the ground
and went VFR to land and in scud running ran into the tower. Voice
recorder should show if it happened that way.

Any comments from high time IFR pilots?

Still in recovery from having the inside of my heart burned out with
RF and cancer scare (negative).

Big John
`````````````````````````````````````````````````` ``````````````````````````````````
On Wed, 24 Nov 2004 18:29:26 -0800, "aluckyguess" wrote:

Something about this crash sounds fishy. I am sure these were really good
pilots. How do you make a mistake like this especialy when the tower tells
you youre to low, and then you never reply back.