Oh dear, someone is *still* using this tired old non-story

URL:http://www.salon.com/tech/feature/2003/07/23/flightsim_terrorism/index_np.html
And just in time for another new release of MSFS. Presumably this will be a
regular feature from now on? sigh

--
Dave Pearson
http://www.davep.org/

On Thu, 24 Jul 2003 16:22:08 GMT, "The original Russ."
wrote:
I can honesty say that anyone without proper flight training in a real
aircraft (or *real* simulator) wouldn't know which way to turn in an actual
commercial airliner cockpit. Let alone know how to fly the friggin thing
with enough accuracy to hit a building!!!
Come off it a few years a go a guy landed a jet who had never seen the
inside of a cockpit in his life and saved the lives of quite a few
people in doing so .
Monty .

Monty ) wrote:

Come off it a few years a go a guy landed a jet who had never seen the
inside of a cockpit in his life and saved the lives of quite a few
people in doing so .

Oh, yeah! To which movie are you referring? Airport 77? Airplane?
Turbulence? Executive Decision?

--
Peter

"The original Russ." wrote in message
...
ROFL!

Goodness me. I've been lucky enough over the years to have spent time in
the
jump seat on a few commercial flights during takeoffs and landings.

I can honesty say that anyone without proper flight training in a real
aircraft (or *real* simulator) wouldn't know which way to turn in an
actual
commercial airliner cockpit. Let alone know how to fly the friggin thing
with enough accuracy to hit a building!!!

When will these arseholes finally give it up? lol.

Cheers,

Russ.

Oh I dont know Russ. If we are speaking about the kind of terrorist
atrocities carried out on 9/11, all they had to be able to do was some basic
navigation and control the speed and altitude of the craft. If they knew how
to use the A/P and programme the FMC it wouldnt have been too hard to get to
the Towers. And remember, we are speaking about two of the tallest buildings
around at the time, not some backyard outhouse.

If we are speaking about a Simmer jumping into the LH seat and being able to
take off, or control the thing in the air, then I agree that most would be
lost. However there are simmers who take it that stage further. The one time
I got up front for a landing, I wouldnt say I was particularly knowldgable,
but I did know what all the main bits were and how they worked. Since that
time I have learned a hell of a lot more, to the point that now I could sit
in the thingypit of a 747 and pretty much know what everything did. It helps
that I have had a couple of lessons from a RL 747 pilot of course, but even
he is impressed at just how well the PSS 747 resembles the real thing. I
would also feel comfortable in the 737-400 series, and soon probably the
NG700's, and there are probably lots of simmers who know a lot more than I
do.

To say that FS2xxx can be used to help terrorists with nefarious intentions
is probably true. To suggest that there are armies of them out there using
it for some long term doomsday scenario would probably be false, at least I
hope it is ;-)

The VA that I fly for has 3 or 4 RL pilots (Jets not Props), and to a man
they all agree that flying Jets in FS can be harder than the real thing.
Whether its because FS doesnt have the feel that sitting in a moving object
does, or the lack of peripheral vision, or even the fact that a lot of the
Jets in FS are difficult to trim for straight and level is neither here nor
there, but if I can follow a 10DME Arc in FS, or make a 7DME tear drop
approach and line up perfect, or even land on two engines in the PSS747 with
a stiff crosswind in FS, then I would have more idea in the real thing than
most passengers.

I agree that it is a tired old story, but I dont agree that "anyone without
proper flight training in a real aircraft (or *real* simulator) wouldn't
know which way to turn in an actual commercial airliner cockpit. Let alone
know how to fly the friggin thing with enough accuracy to hit a building"

Now, if you had said "most people" instead of "anyone", we would be in
agreement g

Rgds,

Chris J






Dave Pearson wrote in message
.. .


URL:http://www.salon.com/tech/feature/20...rrorism/index_
np.html
And just in time for another new release of MSFS. Presumably this will
be
a
regular feature from now on? sigh

--
Dave Pearson
http://www.davep.org/

Dave, You think all us "Flight-Simmers" are on a potential terroist list
somewhere? Nothing more dangerous than a redneck with a renegade 777 !!!
;-))

Blue Skies,
Danny

"Dave Pearson" wrote in message
.. .

URL:http://www.salon.com/tech/feature/20...rrorism/index_
np.html
And just in time for another new release of MSFS. Presumably this will be
a
regular feature from now on? sigh

--
Dave Pearson
http://www.davep.org/

In article , Monty said:

Come off it a few years a go a guy landed a jet who had never seen the
inside of a cockpit in his life and saved the lives of quite a few
people in doing so .

Can you provide references for this?

Indicators of a high UL-factor:

"a few years ago"
"a guy"
"a jet"
"never seen the inside of a cockpit"

Of course if times, places and names were recorded, the accuracy of the
tale could be determined.

--
Neil Trotter, Canewdon, UK

Hi Derek,

Come on mate, don't hold back so much, spit it out, say what you really
mean! :-))

Regards,
John
"Derek Wildstar" wrote in message
news:%vXTa.137180$ye4.95912@sccrnsc01...

"Dave Pearson" wrote in message
.. .


URL:http://www.salon.com/tech/feature/20...rrorism/index_
np.html
And just in time for another new release of MSFS. Presumably this will
be
a
regular feature from now on? sigh

--
Dave Pearson
http://www.davep.org/

I emailed the author are told him exactly what I thought of his story,
utter
crap.

Anyone else with time to spare, email the editors of Salon as well. Here's
the page.

http://www.salon.com/about/letters/index.html

Do not let them perpetuate this horsesh*t.

The B767, B777 and B737 CBT(Computer Based Traning) interactive
manuals/course with real simulations of cockpit operations and procedures,
can be downloaded from P2P networks, or bought online.

http://cpat.com/B767.htm
"This program is used by Hawaiian Airlines, and Aeris Airlines."
http://cpat.com
"CPaT is Trusted and Used at over 39 airlines and training organizations"

http://www.aeronett.com/files/b767/b767.html
"Developed in conjunction with Canadian Airlines International"

http://www.wicat.com/flight/training...et/a320fct.htm
"Airbus A320 Flight Crew Training is a Windows-based computer-based training (CBT)
course that trains flight crews in the operation of the Airbus A320 aircraft"


My point is, if Microsoft Flight simulator is to blame for anything

other than being a good computer game, the above product is properly more

likely to be the terrorists first choice.





maybe aircraft manuals should be label Top Secret :-)




Ph.

I dont know what happent to my last post, ending tekst..

My point is, Microsoft Flight simulator is not to blame for anything
other than being a good computer game, the above product is properly more
likely to be the terrorists first choice.

The hole issue/link Microsoft Flightsimulator= terrorist traning tool
is crap.

Ph.

"John Ward" wrote in message
u...
Hi Derek,

Come on mate, don't hold back so much, spit it out, say what you
really
mean! :-))

Regards,
John


Pilots train for years and years to operate the most demanding pieces of
equipment in the most extreme of conditions, to think that a person can
become intimate with an aircraft in front of a PC, and to do so for montrous
purpose ignores logic and decency.

Flight and flight simming is, to me, more noble than that authors
ill-considered dismissiveness.

Hey, ranting is fun!