Sparrowhawk and airtow

Why not just winch launch the thing and leave all this FAR bible pounding
behind?

Bill Daniels

not every place you want to fly has a winch...

BT

"Bill Daniels" wrote in message
news:IKtyc.11725$2i5.1607@attbi_s52...
Why not just winch launch the thing and leave all this FAR bible pounding
behind?

Bill Daniels

especially in the U.S.
"BTIZ" wrote in message
news:k8vyc.18913$fZ1.13084@fed1read03...
not every place you want to fly has a winch...

BT

"Bill Daniels" wrote in message
news:IKtyc.11725$2i5.1607@attbi_s52...
Why not just winch launch the thing and leave all this FAR bible
pounding
behind?

Bill Daniels







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No winch? Buy or build one.

Bill Daniels

"Slick" wrote in message
...
especially in the U.S.
"BTIZ" wrote in message
news:k8vyc.18913$fZ1.13084@fed1read03...
not every place you want to fly has a winch...

BT

"Bill Daniels" wrote in message
news:IKtyc.11725$2i5.1607@attbi_s52...
Why not just winch launch the thing and leave all this FAR bible
pounding
behind?

Bill Daniels







-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
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Bill Daniels wrote:
No winch? Buy or build one.

Bill Daniels

And if it was built for the SparrowHawk (415 pounds gross), it wouldn't
have to be much of a winch. Or tow it with car, even a small one.
--
Change "netto" to "net" to email me directly

Eric Greenwell
Washington State
USA

Bill Daniels wrote:
No winch? Buy or build one.

In the northeast US we have lots of trees and our airport is a
relatively narrow rectangular plot of cleared land surrounded by trees -
lots of trees. In any kind of cross wind, where would the winch rope
land after release? Right!

The glider grass runway is next to the paved runway used by the power
crowd. A paved taxiway leading from the paved rwy to the ramp crosses
the grass runway at midfield. The airport manager would, properly, be
not inclined to permit winch launching across an active taxiway.

There are lots of cases where a winch is not an option.

Tony V.

"Tony Verhulst" wrote in message
...
Bill Daniels wrote:
No winch? Buy or build one.

In the northeast US we have lots of trees and our airport is a
relatively narrow rectangular plot of cleared land surrounded by trees -
lots of trees. In any kind of cross wind, where would the winch rope
land after release? Right!

Actually, the rope would wind up on the winch drum after release since
normal procedure is to wind it all the way in if there is any chance that
letting it fall would cause problems.

A confined runway surrounded by trees isn't a great option for airtow either
unless the tug can always keep the glider in a position to return to the
runway in the event of a premature launch failure. Winch launch has an
advantage here because the glider is always in a position to either land
straight ahead or, if it is too high for that, fly a short pattern.


The glider grass runway is next to the paved runway used by the power
crowd. A paved taxiway leading from the paved rwy to the ramp crosses
the grass runway at midfield. The airport manager would, properly, be
not inclined to permit winch launching across an active taxiway.

There are lots of cases where a winch is not an option.

True. However, there are also lots of places where it is an option. In
fact, many more than most US pilots suppose.

There is a tendency among pilots not familiar with winch launch to think up
all the ways that improper procedures can screw up the operation and little
appreciation of how a well disciplined operation can co-exist with other
traffic. Winch launch operations co-exist with air-tow and power traffic at
many European glider operations. (In response to the preceding point I had
a US pilot blurt, "But Europeans are smarter than we are".) Could be, they
use winches.

Bill Daniels

We use a pay-out winch here in Hood River, Oregon at an airport and have no
problem with power traffic at all. We usually are using the winch when the
wind has picked up and there is almost no power traffic at these time at
all. We launch from the taxi way and have the required flashing yellow
light on our tow vehicle. It is much more neighbor friendly than using our
tow plane. I am convinced that it is much safer than an aero tow because
the climb is so steep that you either have plenty of room to land straight
ahead or plenty of altitude to make a 360 degree pattern. Costello thinks
it's probably safer too.


"Bill Daniels" wrote in message
news:N%kzc.105626$Ly.66557@attbi_s01...

"Tony Verhulst" wrote in message
...
Bill Daniels wrote:
No winch? Buy or build one.

In the northeast US we have lots of trees and our airport is a
relatively narrow rectangular plot of cleared land surrounded by trees -
lots of trees. In any kind of cross wind, where would the winch rope
land after release? Right!

Actually, the rope would wind up on the winch drum after release since
normal procedure is to wind it all the way in if there is any chance that
letting it fall would cause problems.

A confined runway surrounded by trees isn't a great option for airtow
either
unless the tug can always keep the glider in a position to return to the
runway in the event of a premature launch failure. Winch launch has an
advantage here because the glider is always in a position to either land
straight ahead or, if it is too high for that, fly a short pattern.


The glider grass runway is next to the paved runway used by the power
crowd. A paved taxiway leading from the paved rwy to the ramp crosses
the grass runway at midfield. The airport manager would, properly, be
not inclined to permit winch launching across an active taxiway.

There are lots of cases where a winch is not an option.

True. However, there are also lots of places where it is an option. In
fact, many more than most US pilots suppose.

There is a tendency among pilots not familiar with winch launch to think
up
all the ways that improper procedures can screw up the operation and
little
appreciation of how a well disciplined operation can co-exist with other
traffic. Winch launch operations co-exist with air-tow and power traffic
at
many European glider operations. (In response to the preceding point I
had
a US pilot blurt, "But Europeans are smarter than we are".) Could be,
they
use winches.

Bill Daniels

Bill Daniels wrote:
...

Actually, the rope would wind up on the winch drum after release since
normal procedure is to wind it all the way in if there is any chance that
letting it fall would cause problems.
...


OK, but problems come when you can't follow the normal procedure, e.g.
cable break.

"Robert Ehrlich" wrote in message
...
Bill Daniels wrote:
...

Actually, the rope would wind up on the winch drum after release since
normal procedure is to wind it all the way in if there is any chance
that
letting it fall would cause problems.
...


OK, but problems come when you can't follow the normal procedure, e.g.
cable break.

True, but if breaks are likely to cause abnormal problems, you pay more
attention to preventing them. The German tests of Dyneema plastic cable are
now well beyond 1000 launches without a single cable break. Based on test
results I have seen, it looks like 5000 break free launches may be possible
with reasonable care of the rope.

Bill Daniels