Learning to glide / soar in winter

I am located in Sydney / Australia and wonder what the pros/cons are to do a
glider course in our winter instead of our summer. Weather here is generally
sub-tropic and I guess comparable with South Africa or maybe Spain or
Southern USA. Looks like a much nicer season to be out and about than the 40
degree heat ( and the flies) we get here in midsummer. Spoke to a guy in a
Sydney glider club and he recons winter is just as good as summer for
gliding here.

Any opinions appreciated -- Oscar

Oscar,

Not quite true. The summer season is certainly better for soaring in Sydney,
but winter is as good a time as any to learn, possibly better than summer
(no queues for sailplanes, nice & smooth most of the time, more comfortable
temp).

Camden is obviously your closest field, so you have Southern Cross Gliding
Club & Sydney Gliding to choose from.

Otherwise, you could go to Bathurst and do a 1 week course. This would
generally get you up to solo.

Feel free to message me direct, I live in Sydney as well.

Regards,

Nick Gilbert.




"Oscar" wrote in message
...
I am located in Sydney / Australia and wonder what the pros/cons are to do
a
glider course in our winter instead of our summer. Weather here is
generally
sub-tropic and I guess comparable with South Africa or maybe Spain or
Southern USA. Looks like a much nicer season to be out and about than the
40
degree heat ( and the flies) we get here in midsummer. Spoke to a guy in a
Sydney glider club and he recons winter is just as good as summer for
gliding here.

Any opinions appreciated -- Oscar

Nick Gilbert writes
but winter is as good a time as any to learn, possibly better than
summer (no queues for sailplanes, nice & smooth most of the time, more
comfortable temp).

It's the other side of the world over here, but I learnt to glide across
the winter months last year (started October 03, soled May 04) here in
the UK. Wouldn't say the temperatures were more comfortable in my case
(!) but that aside, no queues, smooth air (when the day was calm) and
range of other weather conditions to experience (when the day was not!)
were hugely beneficial to my learning...

Add to that the fact that the absence of soaring conditions at my home
airfield (in general terms, at least - I did have my first experience of
wave from the site last weekend though I couldn't keep in it ... but
with the 2800' winch launch that got me up there to taste it I did have
a very enjoyable 20 minutes in the air!) during the winter you get lots
and lots of launching, circuit and landing practice. Which is exactly
what you need when first learning.

My advice, from personal experience; learn to fly across the winter and
then reap the rewards and soar through the following summer.

And best of luck


-Bill

--
Bill Gribble

/---------------------------------------\
| http://www.ingenuitytest.co.uk |
| http://www.cotswoldgliding.co.uk |
| http://www.scapegoatsanon.demon.co.uk |
\---------------------------------------/

Thanks Nick, Bill and Seagull, for your input. Thought I might be on the
right track here to prefer around winter for initial gliding instructions
and your posts confirm it for me. Was thinking to buy an initial package
from Southern Cross Gliding Club. They got starter packs of 5 or 10 flights
for A$350 and A$650. That should be enough to find out if it is for me. What
Seagull mentioned about the "jumping through hoops while we get to know you"
aspect of gliding training - not very appealing. In addition it takes me
nearly 2 hours to get there (and 2 hours back). Plus the club expects
members to be there most of the day and help with the chores to get maybe
one or two 30min flights. -- Have to think about all this .....

Cheers and thanks again for the info -- Oscar



"Oscar" wrote in message
...
I am located in Sydney / Australia and wonder what the pros/cons are to do
a
glider course in our winter instead of our summer. Weather here is
generally
sub-tropic and I guess comparable with South Africa or maybe Spain or
Southern USA. Looks like a much nicer season to be out and about than the
40
degree heat ( and the flies) we get here in midsummer. Spoke to a guy in a
Sydney glider club and he recons winter is just as good as summer for
gliding here.

Any opinions appreciated -- Oscar

Again, can't talk of how things are on your side of the world, but over
here similar applies - the club works on a basis of mutual, voluntary
support. But personally, I don't think of it as "help with the chores"
....

The flying is, of course, what it's all about. But it stands to reason
that if a half-dozen people are needed to put me in the air and drag my
plan back to the launch point when I come down, it's only fair that I
reciprocate and hang around to do the same for them when it's their turn
to fly.

The general rule I work to personally is that if I want to fly on a
given day I either turn up early enough to help get the kit out and set
up, fly and then play ground-crew for the rest of the morning and go
home for lunch, or I turn up at lunch time, fly, then play ground-crew
for the rest of the afternoon and stick around to help pack up and put
the kit away at the end of the day. Seems to work fine like this, and
means that my flying takes up, on average, about half a day a week.
Really not a bad deal.

Of course, on the odd occasion I think the wife won't notice my absence
(or I just feel like pushing my luck!) I hang around the whole day, get
the kit out and put it away, but fly both morning AND afternoon

Besides, there are worse things to do on a weekend morning than spend it
with a group of friends playing with gliders. And maybe I was just lucky
and landed on my feet (no pun intended), but I never found any hoops I
had to jump through when I first started (though I missed Seagull's
actual post, so I'm only guessing at the content and meaning). I've
seldom met a more welcoming and accepting group of strangers as when I
first joined my local club. The only entrance criteria appeared to be an
obsession with the weather and gliders and the desire to talk about
little else!

Seriously, if your curiosity has led you as far as to enquire then you
owe it to yourself to give it a go. And though "the club expects members
to be there most of the day" that likely translates to no more than a
half-day in practice, as long as you're not adverse to getting up early


The alternative is, I guess, to spend a lot more money and find a
commercial operation where you can book an instructor, turn up for your
slot, fly and go home. But in my (very biased!) opinion, that's missing
half the fun.

In any case, best of luck, Oscar.


-Bill

Oscar writes
Plus the club expects members to be there most of the day and help with
the chores to get maybe one or two 30min flights. -- Have to think
about all this .....

--
Bill Gribble

/---------------------------------------\
| http://www.ingenuitytest.co.uk |
| http://www.cotswoldgliding.co.uk |
| http://www.scapegoatsanon.demon.co.uk |
\---------------------------------------/

Maybe my choice of words "help with the chores" was a bit unfortunate. Guess
I have to get my head around the idea that glider training is quite
different to power instruction, where you turn up 30min before the lesson
starts, do 1 hour of flying, have a bit of a chat, then go home again.
Gliding is conducted in a club atmosphere where full time commitment is
appreciated and indeed expected. Not that I say that this is a bad thing,
just different to what I did in my PPL training.

Also agree with you that I owe it to myself to give it is try, otherwise
I'll be wondering forever if I missed something really special..... If you
guys can do it in England it must be 10 times as good in sunny and hot
Australia :-)

Cheers, Oscar



"Bill Gribble" wrote in
message .. .
Again, can't talk of how things are on your side of the world, but over
here similar applies - the club works on a basis of mutual, voluntary
support. But personally, I don't think of it as "help with the chores"
...

The flying is, of course, what it's all about. But it stands to reason
that if a half-dozen people are needed to put me in the air and drag my
plan back to the launch point when I come down, it's only fair that I
reciprocate and hang around to do the same for them when it's their turn
to fly.

The general rule I work to personally is that if I want to fly on a
given day I either turn up early enough to help get the kit out and set
up, fly and then play ground-crew for the rest of the morning and go
home for lunch, or I turn up at lunch time, fly, then play ground-crew
for the rest of the afternoon and stick around to help pack up and put
the kit away at the end of the day. Seems to work fine like this, and
means that my flying takes up, on average, about half a day a week.
Really not a bad deal.

Of course, on the odd occasion I think the wife won't notice my absence
(or I just feel like pushing my luck!) I hang around the whole day, get
the kit out and put it away, but fly both morning AND afternoon

Besides, there are worse things to do on a weekend morning than spend it
with a group of friends playing with gliders. And maybe I was just lucky
and landed on my feet (no pun intended), but I never found any hoops I
had to jump through when I first started (though I missed Seagull's
actual post, so I'm only guessing at the content and meaning). I've
seldom met a more welcoming and accepting group of strangers as when I
first joined my local club. The only entrance criteria appeared to be an
obsession with the weather and gliders and the desire to talk about
little else!

Seriously, if your curiosity has led you as far as to enquire then you
owe it to yourself to give it a go. And though "the club expects members
to be there most of the day" that likely translates to no more than a
half-day in practice, as long as you're not adverse to getting up early


The alternative is, I guess, to spend a lot more money and find a
commercial operation where you can book an instructor, turn up for your
slot, fly and go home. But in my (very biased!) opinion, that's missing
half the fun.

In any case, best of luck, Oscar.


-Bill

Oscar writes
Plus the club expects members to be there most of the day and help with
the chores to get maybe one or two 30min flights. -- Have to think
about all this .....

--
Bill Gribble

/---------------------------------------\
| http://www.ingenuitytest.co.uk |
| http://www.cotswoldgliding.co.uk |
| http://www.scapegoatsanon.demon.co.uk |
\---------------------------------------/

You can do this scheduling bit at a commercial operation and even at some
clubs, book and fly, but why? In most clubs, you can help with the ground
operations, eaves drop on instructor/student discussions, watch circuit
after circuit, observe and learn, listen to candide pilot discussions, help
rig and de-rig a variety of gliders, go on retrieves, make new friends, go
out to dinner, soar and fly at every opportunity, and get some extra flying
in the front or back of some member's nice two seater. If you show that
sort of enthusiasm, it will come back to you also. If you join a club and
remain a stranger, you'll not be happy with it, but it's not entirely the
club's fault, is it? Sometimes people say their first impression of a club
is a cold shoulder. That's too bad, as I know most, but not all, members of
our club are welcoming, but it's also a two-way street. You have a power
ticket, good, we'll let you get the next round thank you very much. Now
it's time to learn to soar and leave those limitations behind. Being in Oz
just makes it easier.

"Oscar" wrote in message
...
Maybe my choice of words "help with the chores" was a bit unfortunate.
Guess
I have to get my head around the idea that glider training is quite
different to power instruction, where you turn up 30min before the lesson
starts, do 1 hour of flying, have a bit of a chat, then go home again.
Gliding is conducted in a club atmosphere where full time commitment is
appreciated and indeed expected. Not that I say that this is a bad thing,
just different to what I did in my PPL training.

Also agree with you that I owe it to myself to give it is try, otherwise
I'll be wondering forever if I missed something really special..... If you
guys can do it in England it must be 10 times as good in sunny and hot
Australia :-)

Cheers, Oscar



"Bill Gribble" wrote in
message .. .
Again, can't talk of how things are on your side of the world, but over
here similar applies - the club works on a basis of mutual, voluntary
support. But personally, I don't think of it as "help with the chores"
...

The flying is, of course, what it's all about. But it stands to reason
that if a half-dozen people are needed to put me in the air and drag my
plan back to the launch point when I come down, it's only fair that I
reciprocate and hang around to do the same for them when it's their turn
to fly.

The general rule I work to personally is that if I want to fly on a
given day I either turn up early enough to help get the kit out and set
up, fly and then play ground-crew for the rest of the morning and go
home for lunch, or I turn up at lunch time, fly, then play ground-crew
for the rest of the afternoon and stick around to help pack up and put
the kit away at the end of the day. Seems to work fine like this, and
means that my flying takes up, on average, about half a day a week.
Really not a bad deal.

Of course, on the odd occasion I think the wife won't notice my absence
(or I just feel like pushing my luck!) I hang around the whole day, get
the kit out and put it away, but fly both morning AND afternoon

Besides, there are worse things to do on a weekend morning than spend it
with a group of friends playing with gliders. And maybe I was just lucky
and landed on my feet (no pun intended), but I never found any hoops I
had to jump through when I first started (though I missed Seagull's
actual post, so I'm only guessing at the content and meaning). I've
seldom met a more welcoming and accepting group of strangers as when I
first joined my local club. The only entrance criteria appeared to be an
obsession with the weather and gliders and the desire to talk about
little else!

Seriously, if your curiosity has led you as far as to enquire then you
owe it to yourself to give it a go. And though "the club expects members
to be there most of the day" that likely translates to no more than a
half-day in practice, as long as you're not adverse to getting up early


The alternative is, I guess, to spend a lot more money and find a
commercial operation where you can book an instructor, turn up for your
slot, fly and go home. But in my (very biased!) opinion, that's missing
half the fun.

In any case, best of luck, Oscar.


-Bill

Oscar writes
Plus the club expects members to be there most of the day and help with
the chores to get maybe one or two 30min flights. -- Have to think
about all this .....

--
Bill Gribble

/---------------------------------------\
| http://www.ingenuitytest.co.uk |
| http://www.cotswoldgliding.co.uk |
| http://www.scapegoatsanon.demon.co.uk |
\---------------------------------------/

Oscar writes
Also agree with you that I owe it to myself to give it is try,
otherwise I'll be wondering forever if I missed something really
special..... If you guys can do it in England it must be 10 times as
good in sunny and hot Australia :-)

Typical! Try and give a guy a bit of friendly advice and he turns around
and kicks you right where it hurts! On a more serious note, however, I
understand the soaring conditions are indeed a //little// more
favourable in your neck of the woods at the right time of year Maybe
once I convince the kids to grow up and move out I'll then be able to
convince the wife to take a holiday "Down-under" with me and I'll try
them for myself. Well, we can live and hope!

Winter is good to learn and a good club environment is absolutely the
best place to do it. Try them both first. If either turns out not to
suit you then you can always try the alternatives later

But best of luck which ever way you go. At the end of the day, it's only
the soaring that counts.

--
Bill Gribble
| http://www.ingenuitytest.co.uk
| http://www.cotswoldgliding.co.uk
| http://www.scapegoatsanon.demon.co.uk

No sense of humor apparently. I personally have and had a great time
socializing with my peers.

Frank


"seagull" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 18 Jan 2005 16:29:52 -0700, "F.L. Whiteley"
wrote:

You have a power ticket, good, we'll let you get the next round thank you
very much. Now
it's time to learn to soar and leave those limitations behind.

This is just the sort of culturally entrenched Neanderthalism to which
I refer, and you'll wish you'd avoid when you encounter it at the
field Oscar.

One of the many reasons paying a premium to train at Sportavia et al
is worth every 'penny'. Bypass the ******s & maximise your progress
instead of the bull****.

http://www.sportavia.com.au/

I will also add that socializing is just another form of hangar flying.
Such exchanges with a few sage and safe pilots is an important part of
developing an attitude towards safety in your flying activities that will
serve you well into the future. Some may not share too much until you get
to know them a little better. There are some very interesting tales out
there that are rarely shared. Having fun and enjoyment along the way is
simply a plus. Some of the more difficult pilot attitudes seen over the
years wear an ATP like a shield. Clubs can be helpful or hurdles, true,
choose wisely.

When I was based in USA Region 11 there were few club options, so I flew
only from commercial operations. One I found very predatory and expensive.
Others were quite reasonable. The region has an umbrella organization
called PASCO, www.pacificsoaring.org, that conducted safety seminars, wave
camps, meetings, and provided a newsletter, Westwind, that filled that void
to a reasonable extent. There's nothing wrong with training at a commercial
operation if it better suits your temprement, time schedule, and so on. For
me, if there was no social compliment, I wouldn't be there. My own club
actually does schedule instructor/glider time and there's no delay in
student progress as long as they book in weekly or every two weeks. If
there's member interest, we ramp up course weeks April-September so that the
rating can be knocked off quite quickly.

Frank

"seagull" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 18 Jan 2005 16:29:52 -0700, "F.L. Whiteley"
wrote:

You have a power ticket, good, we'll let you get the next round thank you
very much. Now
it's time to learn to soar and leave those limitations behind.

This is just the sort of culturally entrenched Neanderthalism to which
I refer, and you'll wish you'd avoid when you encounter it at the
field Oscar.

One of the many reasons paying a premium to train at Sportavia et al
is worth every 'penny'. Bypass the ******s & maximise your progress
instead of the bull****.

http://www.sportavia.com.au/